| M964 |
Well for me growing up we had a whole lot of terms involving violence,
you know, like wh- what a fight would be or whether something like that would be, erm,
you know, [inaudible] certain Yiddish words got into it
//for that.// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm// |
| M964 |
Erm, wh- what was the case for you? |
| F965 |
What do you mean? |
| M964 |
Like for example, would you, if- is there a word that you would have used for giving someone a kick in the shin.
Or, for example for us
//we had the term of// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
//Oh// |
| M964 |
hitting someone on the leg very hard is giving them a charley horse.
//Right.// |
| F963 |
//Charley horse, yeah, I know//
//that's come up before.// |
| F965 |
//What do that mean?// |
| M964 |
I have no idea. I, well, I know what it means, but I don't know where it comes from.
But, in any case. |
| F965 |
I think we, I don't think we had any, [tut], [exhale] exclusively
//local terms.// |
| F963 |
//Did you, did you h-? We had Chinese burns.// |
| F965 |
Oh yeah, we had Chinese burns too.
//But did you have a special name for them?// |
| F963 |
//Uh-huh//
//Chinese burns.// |
| M964 |
//Chinese burn sounds pretty special to me, cause//
//[inaudible]// |
| F965 |
//Oh you don't know what a Chinese burn is?// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
//Tell me what// |
| F965 |
//Give him a Chinese burn!//
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//No, I'm saying there//
was a particular, when y- you know, like when you
//took somebody's arm.// |
| F965 |
//I know how to do a Chinese//
burn. Would you like one? |
| M964 |
Would you tell me how it is accomplished? |
| F965 |
//You get hold with// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
two hands of the person's wrist,
//twist one one way and the other the other way.// |
| M964 |
//Er,//
//er.// |
| F965 |
//And it is very//
//sore. Would you like to try it?// |
| M964 |
//Yes. No, I'm quite familiar. We call that an Indian sunburn.// |
| F965 |
//Indian sunburn?// |
| F963 |
//Indian?//
//Interesting, yeah.// |
| F965 |
//We call that a Chinese//
burn. |
| F963 |
Uh-huh |
| F965 |
But I was thinking when you said about, [exhale] I can't think of any physical tortures or things that we had particular names for. |
| F963 |
Half Nelson?
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//That's not. I'm mean that's a judo thing, isn't it?// |
| M964 |
[inaudible] |
| F965 |
//Erm,// |
| F963 |
//Wrestling.// |
| F965 |
but you you had things like you were gonna get laldie, if you, you know, you're, if you're gonna get smacked when you got
//home.// |
| M964 |
//Oh right.// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
Or get into a terrible row. I I always thought laldie involved some physical violence. I don't know.
Maybe not, just a a row. |
| F963 |
You can give something laldie. |
| F965 |
Aye, beatin it.
Or doing it really
//hard.// |
| F963 |
//Doing it//
//excessively, yeah, uh-huh.// |
| F965 |
//Uh-huh uh-huh.//
I don't remember for for various, what sort of thing, what would you call it if somebody pulled your hair or anything. You didn't have a particular.
We had a, didn't have a
//terribly violent [laugh] culture as I recall.// |
| F963 |
//Mm [laugh]// |
| F965 |
[inhale]
You would spell it out, you know, you would say "He kicked him in the shin". |
| F963 |
Mm |
| M964 |
//You didn't have a term if I// |
| F965 |
//Or he// |
| M964 |
for example we might have in the U.S. the term like "a shellacking",
or "a hiding", or something like that,
//you know.// |
| F965 |
//Well lal- gettin ladlie would be getting a terrible, or gettin a// |
| F963 |
//[inaudible] Mmhm// |
| F965 |
Trying to think; I can't remember.
My mother will kill me.
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
//Right.// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
I can't remember
//anything.// |
| F963 |
//But that sounds quite tame.// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//It does a bit.//
Yeah by these standards.
No, I can't remember. |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F963 |
//How often//
was there a public fight when you were in school?
//Because we were talking about that last// |
| M964 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
//Oh//
//[tut]// |
| F963 |
//night, you know?//
//people having a scrap.// |
| F965 |
//very.//
//Quite often// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
and quite erm ritualised. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm, did everybody ki- sort of gather
//round while it was going on cause we had that.// |
| F965 |
//Yes, yes, and I think there was//
some information sometimes passed before you went out on the bell, |
| F963 |
Yes. |
| F965 |
that there was going to
//be a fight.// |
| F963 |
//Yes, I remember the//
//prior arrangement, yeah.// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.//
And i- in those days it would be a case of, erm, just outside the school,
you know, or or almost in the school grounds.
It could be
//on the way out, you know?// |
| M964 |
//Mmhm// |
| F963 |
//Right, uh-huh, yeah.// |
| F965 |
Not in the school,
//not in the// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
playground, but maybe in the field. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
And it's, maybe it would be going down the road.
And it was no business of the teachers. |
| F963 |
Right. |
| F965 |
You know, nobody was going to say, "Move along, you lot".
And it was very [laugh] Marquis of Queensberry.
//This, I mean this// |
| F963 |
//Oh really. [laugh]// |
| F965 |
may just be my school. |
| F963 |
Uh-huh |
| F965 |
It probably was just my school. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
But it would be a fair fight. |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
And the the group, you would you would always know there was a fight, because there'd be a big gang of people all standing in
//[laugh].// |
| M964 |
//Mmhm// |
| F963 |
Mm |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//The circus was on.//
//And erm,// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
you know, there was, if somebody did a false move like no kicking, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
none o that
//stuff. No kicking, it was fisticuffs.// |
| F963 |
//No kicking, no. Mm//
//Yeah, uh-huh.// |
| F965 |
//It was a fist fight.//
Like I say, it was it was like boxing. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
There was no poking them in the eyes and
//and// |
| F963 |
//Mm mmhm// |
| F965 |
it really was quite it was quite civilised fighting. |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
With onlookers, |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
who would pull you up if you, I remember one of my friends actually weighing in when her brother was fighting. |
| F963 |
Right. |
| F965 |
You know, she she thought there had been a false move and she was in there
//to get the guy off.// |
| F963 |
//Mm//
Mmhm |
| F965 |
Erm, this is going to so-, you're not going to believe this.
[laugh] Because it sounds so, it's maybe a false memory too but
there was a degree of honour
//involved.// |
| F963 |
//Mm mmhm//
Well I can remember, you know, things being done that were seen as as sort of inappropriate
//moves or, you know,// |
| F965 |
//Yeah, uh-huh.// |
| F963 |
seen as a kind of a, er er punching somebody
//at the wrong moment, or taking advantage of something the wrong way.// |
| F965 |
//Mm mmhm, yeah, yeah.// |
| F963 |
But, I could hardly ever see what was going on because there was such a crowd of
//people, all pressed round.// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm mmhm.//
It was over very quickly
//as well, and I don't,// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, yeah.// |
| F965 |
I really have no recollection of how they decided who the victor was or |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
you know, who who who was goody and who was baddy, or anything like that, it was just
it was almost like an old-fashioned honour thing.
//Eh, we are going to have a fight.// |
| M964 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
And erm, I'm not gonna back down. |
| F963 |
Mmhm yeah.
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
//And they had their fight and it was ritualised and//
end of story, you know, there wasn't a follow up,
//usually.// |
| F963 |
//It didn't start//
with them hitting each other with gloves or anything
//as [inaudible] as that. [laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Not quite that//
//ritualised.// |
| M964 |
//But that constitutes a duel, I mean//
//it's delayed, yes,// |
| F965 |
//It was almost like a duel.// |
| F963 |
//Yes.//
//Mm// |
| M964 |
//it's delayed, you're not fighting right away in which case it's just// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.//
//You're not creeping up// |
| M964 |
//fight.// |
| F963 |
//Right.//
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
//behind somebody// |
| M964 |
//And there is a code of conduct.// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
Yeah. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
Yeah. |
| M964 |
So how did the ritual end
//[inaudible] rituals?// |
| F965 |
//That's what I can't quite//
remember. The crowd were dispersed.
//Somebody might be lying on the ground.// |
| F963 |
//Mm mmhm//
Mm
//Mm mmhm// |
| F965 |
//Or somebody might just say they'd had enough, or or the crowd might say they'd had enough.// |
| F963 |
Yeah.
When I remember them, they were usually on the school premises, |
| F965 |
Yeah. |
| F963 |
which meant that they were interrupted fairly quickly
//on most occasions.// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.//
Ours were
//usually outside of// |
| F963 |
//Somebody would come out and// |
| F965 |
jurisdiction.
//If they we- we didn't have// |
| F963 |
//Mm yeah.// |
| F965 |
we didn't have er playground supervision,
//so if there was a// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, yeah.// |
| F965 |
fight during playtime
//that was the other.// |
| F963 |
//Neither di- neither did we.// |
| F965 |
That was the other honour thing. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm. |
| F965 |
Er, if there was a fight during playtime, A, the teacher didn't want to know, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
B, nobody wanted to tell them. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
So, it was our thing,
//it was// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
part of being your ch- your child thing. |
| F963 |
But it would be allowed to sort of play out in
//its own way, aye, ah yeah.// |
| F965 |
//Oh they they couldn't care less.//
And I have to say, and again you might not believe this, but nobody ever got terribly badly injured. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
There was a there was a cut-off point, |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F963 |
//Right.//
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
//whereas//
I've seen children, now don't start my "Grumpy Old Women"
//thing but// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
I know children now who don't have a borderline, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
you know, who don't have a boundary. |
| F963 |
Don't know when to stop. |
| F965 |
They don't know when to stop,
//and people don't know how to stop them.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.//
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
And they would do something in a rage. |
| F963 |
Right. |
| F965 |
This would not be quite like that; it would be done
//in cold blood as as a rule.// |
| F963 |
//No a bit more formalised.//
//Uh-huh// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//A//
//formal fight,// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
for some kind of erm principle. |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
And erm
there was a there was a a boundary. |
| F963 |
Mmhm mmhm |
| F965 |
There were no weapons. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
You wouldn't creep up on them afterwards and say "Mm, I'm gonna get you now". |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
But this, I'm talking about a middle-class environment, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
where people were were still getting messages from the previous generation about how you did things. |
| F963 |
But it was, it was reasonably, I mean it wasn't too homogeneous
//I mean you say middle-class [inaudible].// |
| F965 |
//I'm talking about childhood too.//
//I'm not talking about teenage fights.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah. But it it was it was still//
//kind of the local catchment as such, wasn't// |
| F965 |
//[sniff]//
//Oh it was the school.// |
| F963 |
//it?//
//Yeah. But it wasn't it wasn't a private school,// |
| F965 |
//But you knew everybody in the village, you kn-.//
//Not at all.// |
| F963 |
//that's what I'm saying.// |
| F965 |
But you knew everybody in the in the town. |
| F963 |
Yeah, uh-huh. |
| F965 |
And even later on, in teenage, erm where you might have a larger pool,
//Uh-huh// |
| M964 |
//I was going to ask [?]how that was[/?].// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
Erm, well you wouldn't have the the
//the duel type fight.// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
But erm, I think there was still a degree of honour, |
| F963 |
Mm
//Was it// |
| F965 |
//that people were//
despised if they used tactics that were considered, you know, |
| F963 |
Was it still happening when you went to Ayr Academy?
Was there still that sort of |
| F965 |
What? Did they have fights outside Ayr Academy? |
| F963 |
Yeah, was there still |
| F965 |
Not to my
//remembrance.// |
| F963 |
//Right, yeah.//
//Uh-huh [laugh]// |
| F965 |
//That's a good word. [laugh]//
//Not that I can remember.// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
Erm, but then I went to Ac- Ayr Academy in my fourth year. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
And we had nothing to do with the people younger than
//that. We were grown out of// |
| F963 |
//Right. Yeah. Yeah.// |
| F965 |
fighting by that
//age, really.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, uh-huh.// |
| F965 |
I mean the the population of the school.
//I don't think they// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm right, yeah.// |
| F965 |
settled their arguments with with blows. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
But erm, there were certainly plenty of fights going on [laugh] in the town. |
| F963 |
Right, yeah.
//Sort of graduated to [laugh] bigger and better things.// |
| F965 |
//But, yeah, but what was considered a//
dirty fight. There was such a thing then as a dirty fight.
Now, it appears to me, you know,
it's it's just, you do anything you can in order to get this guy off you. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm
Yeah, I was a bit of a stranger to it myself, I must admit. It was just maybe sort of twice a year there would be a big
//playground// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.// |
| F963 |
fight and |
| F965 |
Looking back.
//Yeah.// |
| F963 |
//A lot of threats more than actual violence.// |
| F965 |
But looking back, it was not a violent society. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
It really wasn't.
What was going on behind closed doors we don't know. |
| F963 |
Right, uh-huh. |
| F965 |
Like that guy said,
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
//Hm// |
| F965 |
that was what you did, at home, guy would come home on a Friday night and beat up his wife, who knows? |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
But certainly children, there was there were minor acts of violence, |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
you know, there was, you know, your brother would hit you. |
| F963 |
Mm.
What about vandalism? Was there any
//vandalism, much in those days?// |
| F965 |
//Oh, [laugh] don't get me//
//started! [laugh]// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F965 |
//I didn't know vi-, such a thing existed// |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
in our society, and
//again I'm// |
| F963 |
//Was that// |
| F965 |
not talking about cities. |
| F963 |
Yeah. Do you think that's because there was more employment?
And, you know, people weren't sort of hanging about
//with nothing to do.// |
| F965 |
//I think it was//
because people were respectful of authority, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
far more respectful, and afraid |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
of authority.
Also, as I have said to you before, the War had just finished. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
There had been so much vandalism, |
| F963 |
That's true.
//Well, different scale of vandalism.// |
| F965 |
//[laugh]//
that people didn't want to see things getting knocked down because they'd
//been knocked down; they wanted to see them being built again.// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm yeah, yeah.// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//There was also//
there was a definite erm, fear, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
of destroying things,
//you know, there was a// |
| F963 |
//Right, yeah.// |
| F965 |
you weren't
//erm// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
you didn't get off with it. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
And erm, you would have got into serious bother. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
And as you pointed out one time, you didn't have spray paint. [laugh]
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//None of these convenience// |
| F965 |
//But the thing is//
//people scratched on desks,// |
| F963 |
//tools.//
Yeah. |
| F965 |
you know your, on a on an old wooden desk, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
but that added to its patina.
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
That was enhanced it. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
Er, you got writing in public lavatories, but nothing
//like what you// |
| F963 |
//Right, yeah.// |
| F965 |
you know, somebody would write a wee message on |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
on the door of the
//changing room in the in the// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.//
//Would you get would// |
| F965 |
//swimming pool.// |
| F963 |
you get a dialogue going, from one person
//writing?// |
| F965 |
//No.//
Well maybe a wee bit, I think I might remember a little bit of that; nothing clever, |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
you know, erm,
well I won't say the rude ones but,
//you know, "So and so is a", [sniff], and then,// |
| F963 |
//mmhm//
Mm |
| F965 |
"No she isn't!"
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
"Aye she is!" |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
But there was, there was graffiti. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
But I wouldn't say, there wasn't the kind of graffiti you get now. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
And as I have said to you before, there were public lavatories that were open, |
| F963 |
Yes.
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//day and night,//
that didn't need an attendant. |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
There were shelters along the beach |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
that were not vandalised.
The windows weren't smashed, they weren't
//graffitied.// |
| F963 |
//Right.// |
| F965 |
It was, it was a, I think it was a, probably a reaction to destruction. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm yeah. |
| F965 |
And also people didn't let their kids do things like that. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
And it's kids that do it. |
| F963 |
Yeah.
It- it's funny cause I don't really think of, you know, this place not being bombed as such
//I don't really// |
| F965 |
//Hm// |
| F963 |
a- associate it with that kind of destruction in the War,
//but yeah.// |
| F965 |
//No, but every Dad in the//
place had been somewhere, bombing or been bombed.
//Sorry.// |
| F963 |
//But you had//
tape over the windows I was going to say,
//in these old photographs.// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.// |
| F963 |
So,
//there was.// |
| F965 |
//Which old photographs?// |
| F963 |
Erm, photographs from the War, [laugh].
//Yes.// |
| F965 |
//From this area?// |
| F963 |
I think so. Unless I'm wrong. |
| F965 |
Well we've got photographs of windows being taped up
//down in// |
| F963 |
//Did you not do that//
here? |
| F965 |
I wasn't in the War.
[laugh] |
| M964 |
//We'll blame you anyway.// |
| F963 |
//Th-//
//there's there's a slight non sequitur. [laugh]// |
| F965 |
//We have photographs of taped-up windows.//
Well, I don't think, you know, I think in areas that were likely to be
//air-raid.// |
| F963 |
//Maybe I'm mixed//
up. I'm probably thinking of a different place
//in the photographs. Right.// |
| F965 |
//There's a photograph of my mother,//
//sitting in her home down in wherever they were, Chelmsford or somewhere.// |
| F963 |
//Uh-huh. Is that?//
//Oh I see.// |
| F965 |
//Can't remember.//
//And they had tapes on the wind-. Well South of England, you know, they were// |
| F963 |
//So that's? They were more genuinely worried about bombs? Right. Yeah.// |
| F965 |
quite likely to be
//bombed.// |
| F963 |
//Uh-huh// |
| F965 |
But erm |
| F963 |
They would have had blackouts though, wouldn't they? I mean that was a
//universal sort of thing.// |
| F965 |
//Oh yes, oh yes. I mean.//
//Everybody was very aware.// |
| F963 |
//Uh-huh.//
But that's what I mean, that there would have been events in your life that would have brought it home
//to you much more// |
| F965 |
//There was an//
//there was an// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
//readily.//
//So,// |
| F965 |
//aerodrome//
//in Prestwick.// |
| F963 |
//yes, uh-huh.//
//Yeah, yeah.// |
| F965 |
//It was a target.//
I went to a thing, did I tell you, a talk about Pr- growing up in Prestwick
//during the war.// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
And it was all about, a lot of it was about the aerodrome, |
| M964 |
[sniff] |
| F965 |
about aircraft,
//which was very// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
interesting to the men; it was interesting.
But, erm, they showed us, you know, the Germans had aerial maps of the entire
//place.// |
| F963 |
//Mm//
//Right, yeah.// |
| F965 |
//The whole country.//
Very erm. What am I trying to say? Very erm |
| F963 |
Detailed? |
| F965 |
detailed, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
maps of the whole place, and he showed us some
//of the ones that they got// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
later |
| F963 |
Right. |
| F965 |
of this area.
//Because there was an aerodrome here.// |
| F963 |
//Oh yeah, yeah.// |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F965 |
//With American, American//
//airforce people here// |
| F963 |
//Mm uh-huh, yeah.// |
| F965 |
later. |
| M964 |
[sniff] |
| F965 |
Quite a bit later.
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
[inaudible] |
| F965 |
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
But erm it could easily have been a target. |
| F963 |
Yeah, yeah. |
| F965 |
And there were erm |
| F963 |
Did you not have things along the beach,
//as well, uh-huh. Right, yeah.// |
| F965 |
//There were there were things to prevent invasion.//
Erm and in the street, would you be-, I didn't know this. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
He showed us photographs of things that I thought were like drain covers in the street, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
were the remains of things to stop tanks coming through
//in the event// |
| F963 |
//Oh for goodness' sake.// |
| F965 |
of an invasion.
//And// |
| F963 |
//Blimey.// |
| F965 |
every coastal area was vulnerable. |
| F963 |
Mmhm yeah.
I know there's the remains of that wee sort of watchtower thing,
//on the// |
| F965 |
//Uh-huh//
//on the hill// |
| F963 |
//corner of the golf//
//course, you know, is it a wee// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm mmhm// |
| F963 |
sort of erm kind of broken bits of cement
//where there would have been a wee// |
| F965 |
//Yeah,//
//when we were kids,// |
| F963 |
//don't know.// |
| F965 |
I can't remember this clearly, but we thought it had been an air-raid shelter, but obviously you don't build an air-raid shelter
//on top of a, exactly.// |
| F963 |
//Not on top of a hill.//
//Yeah.// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Looking out to sea, no it'll be an observation point.//
But do you remember those big circular things that we found when the tide was
//way out?// |
| F963 |
//Oh yeah, you still//
//see them, uh-huh, they're like// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.//
//Well they were the, there the s- the sort of// |
| F963 |
//bits of old pipe or something.// |
| F965 |
stanchions had been
//for the blocking// |
| F963 |
//Ah right.//
//Yeah.// |
| M964 |
//Ah// |
| F965 |
//things against erm//
enemy erm sea-craft. |
| F963 |
I'm sure I've seen an old
//photograph of that// |
| M964 |
//[sniff]// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm// |
| F963 |
//at some point, you know, with//
them actually
//built up// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm// |
| F963 |
so that you could see how they work. |
| F965 |
But there wasn't an area, there wasn't a place in this country |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
that people were not aware of of impending
//invasion.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, yeah.//
But that's so alien now, you know,
//the thought of something actually flying over you and blowing you up.// |
| F965 |
//I know.//
Not just flying over you, |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
I mean they were anticipating an invasion. |
| F963 |
Mm
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//It was going to happen.// |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
And it could have come by sea, it could have come by air, |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
it could have come by, you know,
people that you didn't know very well moving in [laugh]. |
| F963 |
Right. |
| F965 |
It was erm, it was impending,
//and they were warned and they were// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, uh-huh.//
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
//terrified of it.// |
| F963 |
And they had the all the fences, all the the metal sort of garden railings cut down
//for the War as well.// |
| F965 |
//That's ri-, well that was to use for weapons.//
//I don't know if that's// |
| F963 |
//So,// |
| F965 |
strictly true actually.
I don't know if they were all |
| F963 |
Used?
//Oh// |
| F965 |
//employed in that way.// |
| F963 |
Well what, they were all cut down
//anyway, I mean there's wee stumps all round the// |
| F965 |
//Well they were taken away, yeah.//
Yeah, a lot
//of them were.// |
| F963 |
//all round the town,//
where the the railings used to be. |
| F965 |
Some people, I heard, this may be apocryphal, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
some people had beautiful gates,
//you know, iron gates.// |
| F963 |
//[tut] Wasn't that the case when//
Nanny's house supposed to be that they buried the
//gates so they weren't taken away. [laugh]// |
| F965 |
//That's what they said; they buried the gates so that nobody would//
take them off for
//for making weapons from.// |
| F963 |
//No war effort here! [laugh]// |
| F965 |
I don't know whether that's true or not. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
But nobody got away with it, you know everybody was scared of it. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm. Yeah. |
| F965 |
And so I think after the War the the kind of mindset was not towards damaging things. |
| F963 |
Yeah, yeah.
//Sure that [?]had an effect though[/?].// |
| F965 |
//Unless you'd been terribly damaged yourself, in which case you might have wanted to// |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
to damage things, but I think everybody was exhausted and wanted to to keep things nice. |
| F963 |
Yeah.
But there was more employment then, as well. |
| F965 |
[tut], [exhale] I don't think employment and vandalism are necessarily related in any way. |
| F963 |
No? |
| F965 |
Not really.
//Vandalism has to do with// |
| F963 |
//A lot of people hanging about with//
no prospects and nothing to do. |
| F965 |
The people who vandalise so- some of the time, in my experience, are not even of employment age. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
They could be sitting reading a book,
//which is what we were told to do when we were bored.// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
"Why don't you go and read a book?" |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
Erm, no, I think it's it's a stage of behaviour.
It's like little children behaving badly only they're not little children any more. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
Or it could be rage. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
The best possible thing you could say about it would be that it's justified rage. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm
Then you get weird things like that whole carry on in France where something just sort of escalates to the point where it's, |
| F965 |
Ooh there's copycat too. |
| F963 |
you know, but it it gets sort of out of control, you know, you lose the point of what the particular protest might have been about
//in the first place.// |
| F965 |
//And it gets hijacked,//
gets hijacked by
//people who just want to break things.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, uh-huh.//
Yeah. |
| F965 |
but erm [?]where is it?[/?]
Erm
I think that always happens with everything; it gets hijacked, |
| F963 |
Mmhm mmhm. |
| F965 |
with a good idea and a bad idea. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Well that wasn't [?]lovely[/?]. [laugh]//
But erm
there were revolutions going on in nineteen sixty-eight
in France, |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
and all over the place.
Did it happen in Amer- yeah, on the campuses. |
| M964 |
It did, yes. |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
//Mm//
I suppose you had the whole Vietnam thing as well. |
| F965 |
Anti-Vietnam
//demonstrations and// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
//Yeah. Mmhm.// |
| F965 |
National Guard shooting folk. |
| M964 |
//[inaudible] exactly the iss- the issue of// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| M964 |
as much of of of what does erm when is the government protecting you and when is it making you feel scared or threatened. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
You know when Laurie was in we were talking about Singapore. |
| F963 |
Right, yeah. |
| F965 |
But then she was saying how when they were there it felt wonderfully safe and clean and pleasant,
and she has a daughter wh- [inaudible], she has a daughter who's very erm erm up for people's rights and
//erm the environment and everything else, ps-// |
| F963 |
//Mm, yeah.// |
| F965 |
psychological one. |
| F963 |
[laugh]
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//And er [laugh]//
when Li- when Laurie told her "Oh it's lovely, you know, you felt you could walk anywhere, you felt so safe,
//and// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
people were so polite and it w- you know it was really nice and",
and she said er, "But at the s- at the expense of people's civil
//liberties",// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
you know, it's it is a repressive regime. |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
But we were, well I was thinking, you know, there has to be a kind of happy medium, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
where you're protected,
but at the same time you can express yourself, a little. |
| F963 |
Yeah, it depends on
//how it's done.// |
| F965 |
//Very little.//
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//See, the the problem when you're//
a tourist as well is that
//you probably don't// |
| F965 |
//[sniff]// |
| F963 |
get to see the poverty.
//You know, sort of keep you in the nicer bits. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.// |
| F965 |
//Well that's why I said that about the the fabulously cheap clothing and the, you know, how they can have it [clicks fingers] done like that. What are they//
paying the people that are
//doing that?// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
And that was when she s- she mentioned,
//you know,// |
| F963 |
//Uh-huh.//
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
//there is the other side to it.//
And when you said that about the vandalism, |
| F963 |
Uh-huh |
| F965 |
We did have a much more repressive,
//do you know, it wasn't a repressive regime,// |
| F963 |
//Mm mm//
//Uh-huh// |
| F965 |
//it was a//
repressive erm mindset. |
| F963 |
Right, yeah.
//Just that you were// |
| F965 |
//Families//
//imposed it, yeah.// |
| F963 |
//culturally predisposed to//
//be different from that. Yeah. Uh-huh.// |
| F965 |
//It was a cultural repression.//
Although, I mean what were they going to do to you? You weren't going to get any worth-, worth-, [tut] worse punishment,
that the the village policeman, as he was,
that that everybody knew. |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
You know, you talked to him, you respected him,
you didn't shout names at him,
//the way they do now.// |
| F963 |
//Mm//
Mm |
| F965 |
You didn't make
fun of him,
//like they do now.// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
Erm, [sniff], and he would take his little notebook out, like, [laugh] he caught me on the golf course
//one day,// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
and you weren't supposed to be; it was private
//property.// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//How old were you?// |
| F965 |
//If you weren't on the right of//
way. About nine. |
| F963 |
[laugh] |
| F965 |
[laugh] And and out came the wee book, you know, and the pretend,
you know, "What's your name again?" [laugh]
//Ooh.// |
| F963 |
//Taking down your details.//
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//And the biggest fear you had//
was that he would go and tell your parents |
| F963 |
Yeah.
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//that you'd been//
doing something wrong. |
| F963 |
And your parents would mind that you
//had been doing this. [laugh]// |
| F965 |
//But that, then again//
//you might come from a// |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F965 |
family where your parents would beat the living daylights out
//of you.// |
| F963 |
//Mm//
//It's true.// |
| F965 |
//So there was a//
//You know, there was a definite// |
| F963 |
//incent-//
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//downside [laugh]//
//to the to the conformity.// |
| F963 |
//[sniff]//
Yes, yeah. |
| F965 |
But on the other hand, people were actually, they were, [exhale]
a-a- the only word is afraid really; they were afraid to break the law. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
Normal people; I'm not talking about criminals.
They weren't afraid. |
| M964 |
//Clearly.// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
But there were criminals and there were normal people.
Now, it seems to me there are a lot more people who are, who wouldn't call themselves criminals, |
| F963 |
You mean criminals like career criminals?
//That was their// |
| F965 |
//Yeah, well yes.// |
| F963 |
way of operating. |
| F965 |
Well they were criminals.
//That was their life.// |
| F963 |
//Uh-huh//
Yeah. |
| F965 |
But now you have people who are not criminals who are quite prepared to break the law when it suits them.
//Or not career criminals,// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
shall we say? |
| M964 |
//It's just a hobby.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.//
Mmhm
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Yeah, I don't know.//
I suppose it was always like this. But I I I could swear on a stack of bibles
that vandalism
just didn't happen in this town, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
when I was growing up. |
| F963 |
Right, yeah. |
| F965 |
Now,
//it might have happ-. It was a small town and everybody knew everybody.// |
| F963 |
//It was a smaller town in those days, too. Uh-huh.//
Uh-huh |
| F965 |
And everybody knew the village,
I keep saying village; it was a town.
//but it was a small town.// |
| F963 |
//Mm//
Mmhm |
| F965 |
Everybody knew him.
And he came in to the school.
And he was liked actually. |
| F963 |
Yeah, yeah.
//I suppose that in a way there there's// |
| F965 |
//Er// |
| F963 |
so much sort of setting people up to knock them down, nowadays, as well,
you know, that anybody that's famous, anybody in the media, anybody who's got any sort of, you know, role that makes them seem to have some sort of aura about them,
means that they are instantly worth chucking things at, at the same time,
which I don't like. I don't like that "us and them" culture, you know,
like "there's the famous people and there's us",
//you know, or "there's the politicians and there's us",// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
like, never the twain, you know?
And it, [exhale], I just, I get frustrated with that because |
| F965 |
Well, |
| F963 |
I hate that sort of senseless knocking things about just because
//you're frustrated and you feel like it,// |
| F965 |
//It was a long time, mm.// |
| F963 |
you know, it's so
//unproductive.// |
| F965 |
//It was a long,//
it was a long time before I understood people who had a particular attitude to the police, |
| F963 |
Mm
//mm// |
| F965 |
//because//
as I say, I grew up with friendly police, |
| F963 |
Yeah, yeah. |
| F965 |
and I lived a life that didn't involve me being at the at the wrong
//end of their interest.// |
| F963 |
//Yes, yeah, uh-huh.// |
| F965 |
Erm, |
| F963 |
Again, it's like places in the States where
//either there's// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.// |
| F963 |
so many laws, and so many
//fiddly wee laws, like, you know.// |
| F965 |
//Got to break them. [laugh]// |
| F963 |
Well, you know, don't litter here, don't drive over this really low
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
speed, by our standards, |
| M964 |
Yes. |
| F963 |
and it seems like you're you're almost inevitably going to be slightly over the mark once in a while.
And so you're always afraid of the police. |
| M964 |
Well there there are two sides to that of course, the police are also afraid of you which makes them as armed people
//more to be concerned about.// |
| F963 |
//Well, then there's the guns//
//issue which is, mm.// |
| M964 |
//You are, you're very// |
| F965 |
//Yes.// |
| M964 |
concerned about not making the police feel afraid of you, |
| F965 |
//Yeah.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, like if//
//you're taking out your driving licence from inside your coat, [laugh]// |
| M964 |
//which, yes.// |
| F965 |
//Yes, yeah, yeah.//
//Everything you have to// |
| F963 |
//do it carefully.// |
| F965 |
think it through,
//every move you// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
make, every word you speak. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
But having grown up with that pleasant, and having been taught that the police were my friends, |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
because then they were my friends
//because// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
I belonged to the law-abiding middle class I suppose, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
who didn't break the law.
But, you know, I learned from people who had had bad experiences, you
//know, like, some-// |
| F963 |
//Yeah, mmhm.// |
| F965 |
somebody whose son, because he was young, driving his dad's car, got pulled up |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
and, you know, the sort of questions that they asked him, sort of.
//Yes.// |
| F963 |
//Unnecessary hard time,//
//yeah.// |
| F965 |
//Or,//
you know, later on black people who had had bad
//experiences,// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.//
//Yeah, uh-huh yeah, mmhm.// |
| F965 |
//just because they were driving a car or something like that.//
Erm and that was, you know, it all depends on the experience that you have personally,
//and I'm talking// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
about what my perception was, |
| F963 |
Right, uh-huh. |
| F965 |
that this was a very safe and law-abiding sort of
//area; it seem-// |
| F963 |
//Mm mm// |
| F965 |
looking back
//it certainly seems// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
very safe to me. |
| F963 |
Well even in my teens I f- I still felt that the police were people I could approach,
//I wasn't, I wasn't// |
| F965 |
//Uh-huh// |
| F963 |
afraid of them.
//But,// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
I knew a lot of people who had, you know, maybe had something in their car that they shouldn't have had when they were stopped or
//you know how [inaudible].// |
| F965 |
//Well wait a wee minute though.//
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
They were maybe breaking the law. |
| F963 |
Well,
yes, but my point wasn't that, my point was that I knew people who were more afraid of the police not so much because they broke the law themselves but because they had been with somebody which had made
//them suspicious or.// |
| F965 |
//[laugh] That was breaking the law. [laugh]// |
| F963 |
No, I don't I don't mean that.
//I mean like you know// |
| F965 |
//No.// |
| F963 |
they were young and they were out and they were doing
//something and so they were treated// |
| F965 |
//Yes, yeah.// |
| F963 |
with suspicion
//for, you know?// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.//
//Yeah.// |
| M964 |
//Do you//
do you think |
| F965 |
[cough] |
| M964 |
//do you think that// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| M964 |
the community here is as homogeneous
//now?// |
| F965 |
//No, no.// |
| M964 |
So, do you think that that diversity has created a challenge
//to this?// |
| F965 |
//Absolutely. Absolutely.// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
And there are advantages and disadvantages like everything else, you know, it's like being in a really cosmopolitan place
//has huge advantages,// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm//
Yeah. |
| F965 |
but it also has disadvantages
//in that// |
| F963 |
//Uh-huh// |
| F965 |
you don't all have the same expectations,
you don't all have the same standards, |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
you don't all have the same attitudes.
And, I don't like the idea of, you know, we were talking earlier about a a elderly people's bit, you know, like a an elderly people's community, |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm |
| F965 |
which sounds quite nice for a minute or two if you're elderly,
you know, almost like a gated community where you're |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
everybody's keeping their garden nice and everybody's erm |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
law-abiding and they don't play loud music and all that.
And then really that isn't, that's not what it's all about, is it? That's not what life is.
//And erm// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
it's one of those things,
that when you're being assailed you think "wouldn't it be nice if everyone here was like me".
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//[sniff]// |
| F965 |
//But when, you know, when you want a bit of//
life, |
| F963 |
A bit of diversity.
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
//Yes, or y- or//
I think th- that that's where the danger is for erm tolerance. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm. |
| F965 |
you know, we were talking about kids earlier, |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
how difficult it is if you if you really don't particularly want to be around children. |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm. |
| F965 |
But children are actually extremely important [laugh] |
| F963 |
Mm
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//er members of the community.//
And if you, you know, if you exclude them entirely from your life, and you, you're not, your life is less rich |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
than it is if you include them, and it's the same with different races, and different nationalities,
//etcetera.// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.//
Erm, I think the diversity thing can have funny knock-on effects,
like you were saying about, you know, a small community where
//everybody knows each other.// |
| F965 |
//[tut] Mmhm// |
| F963 |
that the businesses all know who you are,
//so// |
| F965 |
//That's right.// |
| F963 |
if you were getting your messages or
//something like that// |
| F965 |
//Absolutely.// |
| F963 |
there was no question of where you came from or
why do you want this
//or// |
| F965 |
//That's right.// |
| F963 |
why am I doing
//this, and// |
| F965 |
//No child//
or nobody under age |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
could go in the off-licence and buy drink
//because everybody knew who you were.// |
| F963 |
//Right. They would, they would know who you were, yes.//
//Uh-huh, yeah.// |
| F965 |
//They knew what age you were.//
They knew your father. |
| F963 |
Uh-huh.
So that that, I mean that's one area where just the size of the place, not who the people are or where
//they come from but// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
the size of the place can make a difference.
I mean I remember, this is kind of a stupid example but erm when I lived here, when I lived at home, |
| F965 |
Mmhm |
| F963 |
[tut] erm there was a whole lot of er times where, you know, I was contributing to phone bills and things like that,
//and I sort of// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm// |
| F963 |
took it for granted that that was how it worked.
And I remember, when I moved out,
//erm// |
| F965 |
//An unusual teenager.//
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh] Well,//
I used quite a lot of the phone time,
but when I when I moved out, when I was first moved into a separate flat,
where I was dealing with my own
//bills for the first time,// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm// |
| F963 |
I can remember sort of phoning up BT and saying "Oh, you know, I'd like to set this up, and blah blah blah",
and they were sort of like, well, "We'll give you a limit of a hundred pounds,
and you're not allowed to go over this", and, you know,
there were all these restrictions because to them I was a faceless
//new customer,// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm mmhm// |
| F963 |
and to me, I sort of thought "Well, hang on, I'm used to a different set of
//conventions,// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm//
//[sniff]// |
| F963 |
//to do with//
sort of, you know, like you, having built up lots of
//years of// |
| F965 |
//That's right.//
//Mmhm [sniff]// |
| F963 |
//service with them.//
And I found that really strange that,
//you know,// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.// |
| F963 |
suddenly it was all sort of alien and
//inconvenient and// |
| F965 |
//Yes.// |
| F963 |
you know, and it's just a business, you know, it's not really a big
//deal but it it makes you// |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
//feel that wee bit//
more alienated from the stuff around
//you.// |
| F965 |
//But that's why//
people are so offended
when they've been working for somebody for hundreds of
//years and they're suddenly// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
made redundant as if they had never,
//you know, had no importance,// |
| F963 |
//Well, yeah.//
//[inaudible]// |
| F965 |
//because it is a big//
faceless or- they they've given their loyalty
//to them you know? And they've thought// |
| F963 |
//Yes, yeah, mmhm.// |
| F965 |
they mattered and they were just a tiny little
//number or// |
| F963 |
//Mm.//
But if you do know people then there's there's almost a sort of,
//you know, natural sense of community that comes.// |
| F965 |
//It has its [sniff] ups and its downs, yes.//
And it- there's nothing nicer I think for hum- most human beings than to feel that [laugh] everybody knows your name,
//you know, that you're erm,// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//You've got a role and a place, yeah.// |
| F965 |
//you're in a commun-, people will notice if you're not there.// |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
But then it's got the downside of if you don't want to be there that one time, you don't want people coming and asking you why you're not
//there. [laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
So it's er it's er
//swings and roundabouts.// |
| F963 |
//Mm//
Yeah, the blue rinse twitching behind the
//curtains and all that sort of thing. [inhale]// |
| F965 |
//Oh yes, and people, you know, noticing what you're buying in the grocer's//
//shop, you know, and.// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Erm//
or having to, like, we used to phone up an order of of stuff,
//an,// |
| F963 |
//Mm mm.// |
| F965 |
you know, if you're buying six bottles of vodka, they
//might say// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//"Having a party,// |
| F965 |
//"Oh, very strange".//
//[laugh] "Yes, a packet of Twiglets as well" [laugh]// |
| F963 |
//this weekend, Madam?" [laugh] [laugh]// |
| F965 |
to cover.
Er, but, you know, there, there maybe isn't a happy medium. |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
Maybe there's no such thing as a happy medium. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| M964 |
When we lived in an English village, if you'd
//gone to the butcher,// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| M964 |
and then he would see us getting a takeaway he would ask us why.
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Yes, precisely, precisely.// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
"I thought you bought six pork chops".
//[?]this morning?[/?]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
"Why do you need a takeaway? Are you having guests?"
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//Uh-huh mm// |
| F965 |
//Yeah, there's, you lose your anonymity but, you know, you pay you pay the price.//
//I think as I get older I kind of like losing my anonymity.// |
| M964 |
//[sniff]// |
| F963 |
Mm
//Mmhm// |
| F965 |
//I think when you're young and vibrant or you've got something to hide,//
//[laugh] it's lovely// |
| M964 |
//[laugh] [inaudible]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]// |
| F965 |
i- it's lovely to live.
Well, I can tell you when I started teaching I did not like living near my school, |
| M964 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
because we did have parties.
//We had// |
| F963 |
//Right.// |
| F965 |
people round till four o'clock in the
//morning.// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
And sometimes we played loud music. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
And I didn't want to live where parents would say "Oh that was that
//woman that// |
| F963 |
//Right, sort// |
| F965 |
has the loud parties and the |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
the loose people coming to her house on Saturday nights". |
| F963 |
Yeah. |
| F965 |
We were only having fun. |
| F963 |
Mmhm |
| F965 |
Mmhm.
But, you ha- at that time you had to be seen
//to be a respectable member of society.// |
| F963 |
//Mm mm Yeah. uh-huh.// |
| F965 |
Now,
//I wouldn't// |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F965 |
care if my children were living next door to me, |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
because my life is so
//boring! [laugh]// |
| M964 |
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//[laugh]//
//Uh-huh mm// |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F965 |
//Because we don't have that lifestyle any more. [laugh]// |
| F963 |
But it's it's more litigious now as well, you know, that if they did think you were doing
//something they would probably make a fuss about it.// |
| F965 |
//Oh oh they might lose you your job.//
//Yeah.// |
| F963 |
//Like like you and that//
mouth mouth spray thing, you know, the breath freshener.
//[laugh] Yeah.// |
| F965 |
//Oh the child that said that I was drinking out of a bo- a vodka bottle.// |
| F963 |
Cause you had that wee er
//skooshy thing.// |
| M964 |
//[cough]// |
| F965 |
//Did you hear that?//
And it was a a breath spray cause I had been smoking. |
| F963 |
That's quite scary though, that, you know, somebody can witness something and then suddenly it's a big deal and |
| F965 |
And the child's word is always taken before yours. |
| F963 |
Right.
Yes, yeah.
Ah
Mind you the time
//[inaudible] [laugh]. When I think about it though// |
| F965 |
//That was in the classroom. [laugh]// |
| F963 |
the times that I've thought, you know, oh I recognise that person from somewhere
//else,// |
| F965 |
//Mmhm// |
| F963 |
or I think, you know, that they're they're carrying something when they're not carrying that at all, you know, I think my own judgement
//is quite duff for these things. [laugh]// |
| F965 |
//Oh, I wou- I'd be rotten like this.//
I would be the worst witness and, you know,
//things like// |
| F963 |
//Mm// |
| F965 |
cars.
What kind of
//car they were driving,// |
| F963 |
//Mmhm mmhm.// |
| F965 |
Woo! Maybe it was a white one. [laugh]
I think. |
| F963 |
And it's so easy when you've got a mental image of something, it's so easy to be convinced
//that there's no alternative to that.// |
| F965 |
//Mm// |
| F963 |
And you think, no
//that's what was there, that's what I saw, that's what I remember.// |
| F965 |
//Yeah.//
Some people are far better witnesses than others, |
| F963 |
Mm mmhm yeah. |
| F965 |
because they're more observant, but
//because my// |
| F963 |
//Yeah.// |
| F965 |
observance -
is that the right word? - |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
my observation! -
//[laugh]// |
| F963 |
//Mm [laugh]// |
| F965 |
is so poor,
I assume everybody else's is just as poor,
//you know, they're just as likely to have made a mistake as I have.// |
| F963 |
//Right. Yeah. Uh-huh.// |
| F965 |
As I am. |
| F963 |
Mm |
| F965 |
But er oh I wouldn't trust me as a witness for anything. |
| F963 |
I wouldn't trust myself, no I don't think so. |
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