| F718 |
Erm, perhaps you could just start by erm introducing yourself in terms of how, are you Scottish or whatever, and background and so on, e- either of you first. |
| F1077 |
Er, well, okay, mmhm, mmhm.
Uh-huh, well, I'm June [CENSORED: surname], I've lived in Scotland for, since nineteen sixty-nine, off and on.
Erm, born in England with a Scottish mother and English father,
and married to a Scotsman,
who is?
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//Who is me. [laugh]//
//Jim.// |
| F718 |
//And me is?// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
Who who am I?
//Erm, [exhale]// |
| F718 |
//No ju- keep going, honestly just keep going.// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh.//
//Just say where you were born.// |
| M1078 |
//Lived here all my life.//
First twenty-six years in Rutherglen,
and since then Hamilton. |
| F718 |
Uh-huh.
And are you- are your parents also, were they also Scottish? |
| M1078 |
Yes.
//My mum, my mum might just have been born in England, er, but// |
| F1077 |
//I thought your mother was English? Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Right.// |
| M1078 |
//er from just a month or two old she was brought to Glasgow.//
//Er, but,// |
| F718 |
//So she considered herself to be Scottish even if//
//she wasn't actually born here?// |
| M1078 |
//yes, aye, uh-huh.//
//Mmhm, grandparents would be English.// |
| F718 |
//Okay.//
//Right. What did they do?// |
| M1078 |
//My grandparents.//
//[exhale] Well my grandfather died before my mother was born,// |
| F718 |
//[laugh] If you can remember. Right. Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
actually.
So erm I think he was an armature winder. |
| F718 |
He was a what? |
| M1078 |
Armature winder. |
| F718 |
What's an armature winder? |
| M1078 |
Somebody who winds armatures.
//Well like for motors.// |
| F718 |
//Thanks! [laugh] Right. What's an armature?// |
| F1077 |
//Big, big coils, isn't that?//
//Part of a motor, part of a- an electric motor. Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Armature is, uh-huh, electrical coil on a motor.// |
| F718 |
Right.
//Kind of aware of the word but I didn't know what it meant.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
Er, in those days women didn't work, but |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
er when my grandfather was, my grandmother was widowed she opened a shop near er [tut] Celtic Park actually.
//And. Sweets. Confection.// |
| F718 |
//Selling? Right.// |
| M1078 |
And such like.
//So I'm told, cause// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh// |
| M1078 |
all my, all four of my grandparents were deceased before I was born. |
| F718 |
Right. |
| M1078 |
I never knew any of them. |
| F718 |
Mmhm.
//[inaudible]// |
| F1077 |
//I actually had an an Irish grandmother.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
I
//my my// |
| M1078 |
//Who had? You had? Oh.// |
| F1077 |
maternal grandmother was of Irish stock. |
| M1078 |
Mm. |
| F1077 |
I can't actually remember her her name at the moment but it was I- she came over they came over from Ireland. |
| F718 |
So they came over to Scotland from Ireland? |
| F1077 |
Yes.
//My// |
| F718 |
//Cause there's quite a lot of Irish in the north of England, I think,//
//Liverpool and Newcastle, and so on. Yes, yes.// |
| F1077 |
//uh-huh, no that was my m- my maternal one not paternal. Erm,// |
| M1078 |
//Yeah, well, the same as Glasgow. Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
as far as I know, my my dad's parents are both well and truly English,
but my mum's mum was from Ireland.
I can't remember her name. |
| F718 |
And you've still got relatives around the
//Dundee area?// |
| F1077 |
//Oh, the Dundee area.//
Yeah, aye, swarming with them I think.
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh] Sw- swarming. [laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.//
well my father had Dundee con- strong Dundee connections |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//[sniff]// |
| M1078 |
//in the family.// |
| F718 |
Did he have any particular words that he used that weren't, that that were, that sort of pinned him down as Dundee rather than West Coast?
//Anything that you remember that was// |
| M1078 |
//[inhale]//
//Not that I remember because erm// |
| F718 |
//different?// |
| M1078 |
I I I don't really know Dundee words to
//say that's a Dundee one, they're just words.// |
| F1077 |
//Well they they use 'ken' a lot; did he do that?//
//Ken. "Do you ken something?"// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//[cough], Mm? Ken? Oh no, that's up north. That's er Peterheid.//
//You ken?// |
| F1077 |
//Cause my Auntie Mina and//
the rest of the family use that although my mother didn't cause she'd been in England a long time, but my Auntie Mina and them used to say "ken".
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
But o- one thing when we were talking about this, that appleringie thing recently, which is a word I hadn't heard since childhood,
//my mother called it appleringie.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah, c- uh-huh.//
//Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
//But//
Dad's dad |
| M1078 |
My father. |
| F1077 |
called it, what was it? |
| M1078 |
Flechinel. |
| F1077 |
Flechinel.
And yet he was from the Dundee area
//as well.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm, mm.// |
| M1078 |
//No, well he wasn't. The family//
//had connections there, but it was really Clydebank he lived in all his// |
| F1077 |
//Oh right, the background then. Mmhm, mmhm, mmhm.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Right.// |
| M1078 |
//life till they got married.// |
| F718 |
To fill in the backstory of this, cause obviously I I know what
//you're talking about, but er the rest of the world might not,// |
| F1077 |
//Mm, mm uh-huh.//
//Right uh-huh, it's er// |
| F718 |
//appleringie is what?//
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Southernwood or artemesia.// |
| M1078 |
//Southernwood.// |
| F1077 |
And er the only time I'd ever heard it called appleringie was as a child. It was in the garden and it was always appleringie.
//I always had this// |
| F718 |
//It's very scented, isn't it, a-//
//southernwood, yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//aye, very sort of herbally smell, and I always used to have this// |
| M1078 |
//Yes, mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
picture of kind of rings of apple with the
//the cores// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
core missing it always brought up, the there were always
//sort of dried rings of apple; it was always what I thought about.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.//
Mm. |
| F1077 |
//Erm,// |
| M1078 |
//[cough]//
//[cough]// |
| F1077 |
//as I say er southernwood, and then this flechinel. I think we looked up 'flechie', I can't remember what it meant but we looked up 'flechie',//
//cause you weren't sure how it was spelt.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm, don't know uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
Aye, I would spell it F.L.E.C.H.I.E. |
| F718 |
//Does the 'flechie' part of the word mean anything in particular?// |
| M1078 |
//Same as me.// |
| F1077 |
Yeah, but I can't remember, we'd have to look at the dictionary.
//Yeah, uh-huh.// |
| F718 |
//Right, oh we'll maybe just leave it just now. [laugh]//
//Right.// |
| F1077 |
//Aye we wo-, we worked out, [?]counted[/?], how it came to be called that.//
But er the only other kind of Scottish word I can remember that sticks in my mind when I was young was the word 'sleekit',
because I didn't even know it was Scottish,
//until I// |
| F718 |
//Right.// |
| F1077 |
used it in a, it was an essay, and it was, I was writing about a character in something like "Barchester Towers",
who was called, I think it was Mr Slope, he had the name that suggested his character. |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. |
| F1077 |
And I used the word 'sleekit' and I got the essay back and there was a query beside it, |
| F718 |
Mmhm.
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//and luckily the the English teacher was Scottish, he was from Glenrothes, so he knew what it meant.//
//But I didn't// |
| F718 |
//But it's quite, is it not quite common or//
//quite well-known as a Scottish word? Exactly yeah. Sleekit.// |
| F1077 |
//Well apparently not, no, he said, mm. Right, well how many// |
| M1078 |
//Well it's a Burns, it's used in Burns, "wee sleekit cowerin timrous beastie".// |
| F1077 |
people in England would know much about Burns? |
| F718 |
//But if they knew anything, that would be the line they'd know.// |
| M1078 |
//Oh, mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
Hm.
//Well,// |
| F718 |
//Probably.//
//Mm, mmhm, mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//it seemed, apparently it was a a word I shouldn't be using in an English essay cause it was just a Scottish word.//
//So it stuck in my mind.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.//
So when you moved up to Scotland, what, did you notice any, or, [laugh] did it come as a shock? [laugh]
//Did you// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]//
//The first thing that happened, got off the train at Queen Street.// |
| F718 |
//were there words you didn't understand?// |
| F1077 |
[laugh]
//It would be January nineteen sixty-nine, er oh, no, it was February.// |
| F718 |
//How come Queen Street,//
//coming up from the South?// |
| M1078 |
//Train.//
//No, East Coast.// |
| F1077 |
//That's where we got off. Oh yeah, from, uh-huh,//
//through, up to Edinburgh and then across, mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Right, right.// |
| M1078 |
//Edinburgh to// |
| F1077 |
And er it was Rag Week. |
| F718 |
[sniff]
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//And there were all these strange [laugh] people on the station. We wondered what we'd come to, cause//
//they were all dressed up and everything.// |
| M1078 |
//[inaudible] Rag Week.// |
| F1077 |
That's why I think, I thought it was January, but maybe it was February.
//Erm, mm all these weird people.// |
| M1078 |
//No I think it was Jan-// |
| F1077 |
And then before we came, once we'd applied for jobs and got jobs, I remember there was a story in the the paper about erm a body found in a bin in Glasgow, |
| F718 |
[laugh]
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[cough], which kind of made us think twice about it, but we came anyway.// |
| F718 |
Yeah, [sniff]. |
| F1077 |
[swallows coffee] And then we met in nineteen seventy-one.
At? |
| M1078 |
February? |
| F1077 |
Uh-huh.
//Can you remember where? [laugh]// |
| F718 |
//Well remembered. [laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//Uh-huh.//
Oh the er Pink Elephant.
//The White// |
| F1077 |
//No, White//
//Elephant. [laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//Mm? Oh [laugh].//
//Yeah, White, White Elephant// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
erm d- disco. |
| F1077 |
Disco. |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. |
| F1077 |
//Yes, mmhm, Sauchiehall Street.// |
| M1078 |
//In S- Sauchiehall Street, Glasgow.// |
| F1077 |
It later became, oh I can't remember what it changed its name to.
//It has several// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.//
//Uh-huh, mmhm mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Is it still there, or is there still a club in the same building? Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//It is, there is still a club there, I'm sure. It was on the the first floor of a building, [inaudible] entrance.//
Erm mmhm.
And we met there because we were both in the Young Conservatives; it was a Young Conservatives disco. |
| F718 |
[laugh]
Er isn't there a story that you you were there with a
//friend and the friend said "You have the lanky one cause I want the other one". [laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//Yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm, mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Or is that just the version you told me?// |
| F1077 |
//I don't think it was lanky.// |
| M1078 |
No, y-y-
//"You take the big one and I'll take the other one."// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//"You take the big one" or something. [laugh]//
Yeah, that was Gordon. |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. [laugh]
And that was Pat
//who you were there with?// |
| F1077 |
//Yes, Pat was, yeah, Pat was the other one, mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Uh-huh. Yes.// |
| F718 |
//So that was before Pat met Ian then?// |
| F1077 |
//It wa-.//
//Oh yes, uh-huh. Ian was when we went, in nineteen-seventy// |
| M1078 |
//Oh.//
But it was after you'd left
//Tunbridge Wells, that's right yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh, nineteen seventy-one we went down to//
Tunbridge Wells,
and she met him down there. |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
Mmhm, he's very English. |
| F718 |
There you go.
So what was Glasgow like in those days, in the early seventies, late sixties, early seventies?
Or what was that, what was that club or disco like, what was, what sort of |
| F1077 |
Well there was one of these big glitter balls, I remember that.
//Was that the, uh-huh. Yeah, uh-huh, yeah, and the-// |
| F718 |
//In the early seventies? Are they that old? I would have put them as mid-seventies.// |
| M1078 |
//[inaudible] Oh yes, and before that.// |
| F1077 |
Another place that was popular was the M- Majestic
//er for dances.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
Known as the Magic Stick. |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//Magic Stick.//
And then there was the Highlanders, near Charing Cross,
//which was tha- very lively, uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//That was a lively place to go on a Saturday night.// |
| F1077 |
You got dancing there you got flung around the room really,
//I remember that. Yeah, yeah, all// |
| F718 |
//So is that sort of Scottish Country Dancing?//
//Is that is that what you did in the the the one in Sauchiehall Street// |
| F1077 |
//sort of ceilidh stuff.//
//Oh no no, no that was// |
| F718 |
//as well, or was that like normal?// |
| M1078 |
//No no, no no, disco.//
//No. Rock. Pop.// |
| F718 |
//Pop stuff?// |
| F1077 |
//Sort of er, you know, sort of rock and pop and stuff, uh-huh, yeah.//
//And// |
| M1078 |
//And they all finished about//
//ten o'clock at night and you got the bus home.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//Was it as early as that?//
Mm.
Well we didn't from there, because Gordon had a car, Gordon [CENSORED: surname].
//I'm sure he had a car.// |
| M1078 |
//So did I.//
//Oh, that night? Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
//Yes, so did you. Aye, that night. Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
Erm well he used his mother's Mini van, but
//the four of us wouldn't get into that.// |
| F1077 |
//Oh maybe that was// |
| F718 |
Mm. Into a mini-van? |
| M1078 |
Mmhm. |
| F718 |
How mini was the van?
//Mm. Right.// |
| F1077 |
//Well I wouldn't have been sitting in the back with no seat. There would be two seats in the front. Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Well like a Mini car, there was a van a van version of a Mini//
//car.// |
| F718 |
//Oh right, right, I see.//
I thought you meant it was a van, but ma- mm
//a small van. Right.// |
| M1078 |
//Well it was a van, just two windows at the front,//
panels behind. |
| F718 |
//Right, like a a Del Boy er,// |
| F1077 |
//There were a lot more//
//Oh it had four wheels. Uh-huh.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh] Right.// |
| M1078 |
//With four wheels, smaller than that. Uh-huh. A Mini van was smaller than that.// |
| F718 |
Oh, I don't know.
//Uh-huh. Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//It was like the Mini; it was a variant of the Mini car.// |
| F1077 |
There were more department stores in Glasgow then, big ones,
//in Sauchiehall// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
Street, there was Copeland and Lye.
//Pettigrew's.// |
| M1078 |
//Pettigrew's and Stephens.// |
| F718 |
//Was Watt Bros there at that time?// |
| F1077 |
//And then there was another one.//
//Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.// |
| F718 |
//It still looks nineteen-seventies! [laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//Yes.//
Treron et cie. |
| F718 |
//Where?// |
| F1077 |
//Aye.//
//Treron. Treron was up// |
| M1078 |
//Treron et cie.// |
| F718 |
//Treron Ici?// |
| F1077 |
//where the// |
| M1078 |
Et cie.
//E.T. C.I.E.// |
| F718 |
//A.C. Right.// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh. That was up//
//where the erm McLellan Galleries are now.// |
| M1078 |
//Known in Glasgow as Trero,//
//Treron, rather.// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh.//
//And there was another one, Muirhead's or something, further down on the same side as that.// |
| M1078 |
//Uh-huh, mmhm.//
//Fraser's of course, Arnott's.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm, there used, there were two Fraser's. Mmhm.//
//Fraser's and Arnott's.// |
| F718 |
//Why were there so many department stores?// |
| M1078 |
//And Lewis's.//
//That was the way of things in those days.// |
| F1077 |
//Erm, there were less, there were fewer,//
//sort of,// |
| F718 |
//Chain shops?// |
| M1078 |
//Big chains.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//uh-huh.//
Yeah, it all tended to be the big depar-, which were excellent, you could get anything, especially Copeland and Lye, I remember they used to have er a good sort of haberdashery department. |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
And there was a a lovely restaurant, it was Ma Brown's it was called, M and A Brown's the cake shop.
And there was a restaurant downside,
//down the stairs from it, uh-huh, uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//Ne- nearer Charing Cross, in Sauchiehall Street.// |
| F718 |
//Has that not been there// |
| F1077 |
//That was [inaudible].// |
| F718 |
er has there not been a a cake shop
//still?// |
| F1077 |
//No.//
//Not Ma Brown-, no it's,// |
| M1078 |
//No, it's Bradford's now.//
//It's different, [inaudible] different.// |
| F718 |
//Right, right.// |
| F1077 |
//aye, it was further down, uh-huh.//
//Erm, well it was probably around// |
| F718 |
//Cause Ma Brown's sounds familiar.// |
| M1078 |
//[cough]// |
| F1077 |
while you were young. |
| F718 |
Mm. |
| F1077 |
Uh-huh.
//But it was the downstairs which [inaudible]. Aye it was one high tea we got there.// |
| F718 |
//Right. Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//Uh-huh, you might have been there for high tea one night. Possible.// |
| F718 |
Do you want to explain the concept of a high tea; I don't think that's
//a universal.// |
| F1077 |
//Oh right, oh, uh-huh.//
Well it's more Scottish than English I would say. You don't really get
//high teas in England, so you could do that one.// |
| F718 |
//Exactly, yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.//
Hm well.
Erm, it was a meal that you had around early evening, |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
consisting of
//erm often fish and chips.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.//
//A main course, rather than a starter.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Er a main course//
certainly fish and chips would feature. |
| F1077 |
Uh-huh.
//Steak pie, gammon and pineapple.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//like frequently in it.//
//Yes.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
Omelette,
//that was always an option.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//And a plate of cakes.//
Oh there would be toast,
//or bread, br- bread and butter with it, uh-huh.// |
| F718 |
//Bread and butter, I remember from one in Ayr. Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm. Uh-huh. Mmhm.//
//Choice of tea or coffee,// |
| M1078 |
//And er//
//tea or coffee with er cakes// |
| F1077 |
//which came with your meal.//
//[laugh] Mmhm. [laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh] How continental! [laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//on a, on a plate. Mm.//
//On a sort of// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh.//
//Yeah. Yeah, yeah.// |
| F718 |
//A tiered er cake tray thing, yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//a tiered cake plate.// |
| F718 |
Yeah. |
| M1078 |
Er, choice of
//well probably scones, or// |
| F1077 |
//Usually a scone and a cake.//
//Mmhm. Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//er crumpets, pancakes,//
//mmhm, nice cakes.// |
| F718 |
//Could you just, I I don't really remember this, well I I do, I remember the concept, but I don't, obviously wasn't paying for things when I was like five, so did you pay for what you had or did you// |
| F1077 |
//Mm. Mm. Mm. Oh right.//
//No.// |
| F718 |
//just pay for the whole lot and you could eat them all if you wanted?// |
| M1078 |
//No I think. Yes, that's right.//
//Uh-huh, yes.// |
| F1077 |
//Oh well there was u- there was a limited amount put out.//
//Like if you were at a table for// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
four there would be four cakes out.
//Erm and you'd ki- well no you'd kind of eye up, deci- deciding which one you// |
| F718 |
//Right, right, so you'd fight over the best one.//
//I remember doing that! [laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//wanted and you, [laugh] uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//Pineapple cake or//
//Eiffel, Eiffel Tower [?]fine[/?] cake.// |
| F718 |
//Fern cake, a fern cake!// |
| F1077 |
//I remember down at Ayr, a fern cake, yeah.//
//Remember down at Ayr,// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
at the, was it the County Hotel in the square there?
//And we were there with// |
| M1078 |
//Could have been.//
//Yes.// |
| F1077 |
//Peg and Ted from America.//
//And yo- yeah, and// |
| F718 |
//I remember that, yeah, mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Grandma was there as well,// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Right. [laugh] Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//and the cakes came and I remember there were a couple of sort of good cream cakes and then kind of ordinary things,//
//and Peg and your mother both grabbed// |
| F718 |
//Empire biscuits.// |
| F1077 |
//for the ce- cream cakes and we were left, oh.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//With the Empire biscuits. [laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//Aye, oh go- Empire biscuits.//
//Oh that was something. My mother always called them Belgian biscuits. I don't know why but they were Belgian biscuits when she made them.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]//
Right.
//Is that because, is that because of her Scottish roots? Or the English thing, or just// |
| F1077 |
//I don't know.//
//Oh probably not cause they were always Empire// |
| F718 |
//a quirk.//
//Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//biscuits up here, but they were always Belgian biscuits when I was little.// |
| F718 |
Uh-huh.
Mm. |
| F1077 |
Mm stovies, that's another thing. Stovies, that's very Scottish.
//Mm well maybe it's very Dundee.// |
| M1078 |
//Not around my household it wasn't. Mm.// |
| F718 |
//So what did you eat in your household then?// |
| F1077 |
//That's [?]what we had for[/?] dinner.// |
| F718 |
What meals do you remember from |
| F1077 |
//Well, didn't you have days of the week for things?// |
| M1078 |
//Oh in those days, we ha- ye- yes.//
//But// |
| F718 |
//Fish on a Friday?//
//Mm. No?// |
| M1078 |
//then it wa-. No no, no.//
Can I say why?
//Eh,// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//Well yeah, mmhm.//
//[inaudible]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//We had fish on a Tuesday because erm//
fishing boats didn't go out on a Sunday night,
//for religious reasons,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.//
//Right.// |
| M1078 |
//for fisherman being very superstitious.// |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. |
| M1078 |
So when they went out on a Monday night, back on the Tuesday, er we got fresh fish every Tuesday for tea that night. |
| F718 |
Hm. |
| M1078 |
Er, fish was a, eh fish is something that the Roman Catholics have on a Friday, |
| F718 |
Yeah. |
| M1078 |
er
//so Protestant, Protestant households didn't// |
| F718 |
//Why is that? Is it because they avoid meat?//
//Or, yeah. Right. Mm.// |
| F1077 |
//Yes, yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//have have it then, see? [laugh]//
[laugh] [inhale]
//Yes, that's right.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm.// |
| F718 |
What sort of fish? |
| M1078 |
Sole,
//haddock, and yeah.// |
| F718 |
//[inaudible]. Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//Oh, cod or haddock was all we ever had.// |
| M1078 |
No, sometimes it would be a bit of, it would be lemon sole.
//Nice bit of lemon sole.// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm.// |
| F718 |
//[cough]// |
| M1078 |
//Aye, uh-huh, probably cod and haddock//
//would be more usual.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.//
The yellowy haddock? |
| M1078 |
Aye, y- yes, smoked.
//Dyed, it could have been, mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Smok- yeah right, is that what makes it yellow?// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm, mm.//
//Well, it was [inaudible]// |
| M1078 |
//And then we would have//
herring; my mother would make potted herring in the summer months
//with herring,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
from Loch Fyne. |
| F718 |
//Mmhm// |
| F1077 |
//Is that rollmops?//
//You used to buy those in// |
| M1078 |
//Mm yes, mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
the fishmonger, remember the fishmonger and fruit shop, combined?
//Oh I can't remem- MacFisheries!// |
| F718 |
//You used to get rollmops in -//
MacFisheries! [laugh]
You used to get rollmops in B.H.S. in Hamilton when they had a
//a, when they had food.// |
| F1077 |
//Oh, uh-huh, uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//Oh yes, probably, on the deli counter. Yes. Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
I didn't like them but Pat used to buy them. |
| F718 |
I don't think I've ever had one. |
| F1077 |
Oh, uh-huh.
//Well I don't think I ever had them but I didn't think I liked them.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//There was//
there was a business in Glasgow which is still there, called R. A. McPhees, who were er fishing, fish merchants,
//and their slogan on the vans was R.A.- "Fresh from the sea to R. A. McPhee".// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F718 |
Right. |
| F1077 |
There's one in Byres Road.
//[inaudible]// |
| F718 |
//It's Jack McPhee though, is it not?// |
| F1077 |
Oh well, it's probably the same family.
//Mm, mm, uh-huh// |
| F718 |
//Right, cause I was thinking they use that slogan, I think, but then, uh-huh, right.// |
| M1078 |
//Mm, I don't know. Oh?// |
| F718 |
Mm.
So did it come ro- sorry, did it come round in a van, the fish? |
| M1078 |
No, no, that was delivering to the shops.
//Mmhm mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Right, so you would just go out to the shop and get it?// |
| F1077 |
But wasn't Monday always the the remains of the Sunday roast?
//That was your Monday dinner, mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Yes, mmhm, boiled ham,//
//roast, roast beef,// |
| F718 |
//[cough]// |
| M1078 |
chicken, whatever we had had
//over the weekend// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.// |
| M1078 |
would be used up on a Monday. |
| F718 |
Mmhm.
//What about puddings?// |
| F1077 |
//[inaudible].//
//Mm mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//[inhale]//
//Well, mmhm, uh-huh// |
| F718 |
//There's a lot of Scottish puddings.// |
| M1078 |
Often enough custard. |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. |
| M1078 |
And fruit.
//Er, oh yeah, erm,// |
| F718 |
//Home-made custard or out of, Bird's out of a tin?// |
| M1078 |
oh aye, Bird's
//mmhm,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm, powdered//
//stuff.// |
| M1078 |
//powdered custard.//
And then er rice pudding.
Boiled.
Er, baked
//r- rice, sometimes, though I didn't like the// |
| F1077 |
//Oh, baked rice with the skin on, oh!//
//Oh I did. I loved that brown skin.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//skin, and the nutmeg on it, which I didn't like.//
//Er,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm, mm.//
//Do you like m- nutmeg now?// |
| M1078 |
//[inaudible]//
//Not greatly, no.// |
| F718 |
//Still not? Mm. Didn't think you had a problem with nutmeg.//
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//Er,//
//I probably wouldn't, I probably wouldn't ignore it altogether if it was there, but// |
| F718 |
//Did you know that? [laugh] Yeah.// |
| M1078 |
you know, I wouldn't specify nutmeg on my
//on my rice pudding// |
| F718 |
//Mm, mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
particularly.
Erm, there was semolina sometimes, which I didn't like really.
And there would be, well my mother never made things like tapioca and sago |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
puddings, |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
luckily. |
| F718 |
Because she didn't like them either?
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Probably, you know, the texture of them she didn't like.//
//And er I certainly never took to those myself.// |
| F718 |
//Mm, mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
Mm.
//Can't think.// |
| F1077 |
//I can't remember what sort of thing.// |
| M1078 |
Here, erm, I heard something on radio just this morning and it brought back a memory.
E-e- you know how when you buy jelly these days to make a jelly
//dessert, er it's a jelly texture you get?// |
| F1077 |
//Yeah, mmhm, tablet, uh-huh.//
//It used to be crystals. Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//Ah, it used to be jelly crystals.//
//I remember my mother got, used to make jelly// |
| F1077 |
//Mm, aye, mm.//
//Somebody's found the last tin of Creamola Foam in the world.// |
| M1078 |
//crystals, mm, yes.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Really?// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh. Yeah.//
//Uh-huh.// |
| F718 |
//When did they stop making that?// |
| M1078 |
//In a shop.//
//[inaudible] Uh-huh, not very long ago.// |
| F718 |
//I used to like Creamola Foam. Oh, we had it up to the nineties, I'm sure.// |
| F1077 |
//You used to like it when you were little, uh-huh, so.//
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Yes, uh-huh.//
//Aye, it's the, factory stopped it, er it's only about seven or eight years ago, apparently.// |
| F718 |
//I think it's great stuff. Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.//
//We used to buy lemonade powder in Woolworth's, you used to buy it loose, like by the// |
| M1078 |
//It's N- Nestlé made it.// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
//quarter pound or something.//
er shovel it in a bag for you. You ca- I suppose it was sort of Creamola Foam thing, but it was always lemonade. |
| F718 |
Yeah. |
| F1077 |
//But er// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
And is it being sold on eBay, this last tin? |
| F1077 |
//[inaudible] Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//No, er, I think it's going to a museum, isn't it?// |
| F1077 |
I can't remember. |
| M1078 |
Oh no! Somebody is buying it er to try
//and crack the// |
| F1077 |
//Oh to analyse it. Mmhm.//
//Mm mm.// |
| F718 |
//Oh!// |
| M1078 |
//the ingredients so that they could start making it again.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.// |
| M1078 |
although whether Nestlé'll allow them to do that or not I don't know,
//because they might still have the the rights to it.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.//
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
Well they could call it something else. |
| M1078 |
But er, |
| F718 |
Yes.
//I don't think you can have a copyright over a brand of [inaudible]// |
| F1077 |
//Mm, no.// |
| M1078 |
//Yeah, that's what's going to happen to it.//
//Well, you could have rights to,// |
| F718 |
//list of ingredients.// |
| F1077 |
//They wouldn't use the Creamola Foam man.// |
| M1078 |
//well Coca-Cola say they have.//
//No, they would maybe need to// |
| F1077 |
//Is it [?]simple[/?] I suppose.// |
| F718 |
//Mm. But that's why they keep the ingredients secret presumably so that you can't copy it.// |
| M1078 |
//change the, mmhm, uh-huh.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Mm because yeah, mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
So, you know, if you can analyse all
//the ingredients in Creamola Foam, presumably you could do it in Coca-Cola.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah, yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm, mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//But, it's not done, apparently,//
//if indeed there is a secret ingredient in it.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.//
//Well, maybe there isn't, yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
Mmhm.
//Do you y-, sorry. On you go.// |
| F1077 |
//[inaudible] No, no. I was going to say, you never stayed to school lunches, did you?//
//School dinners, uh-huh, uh-huh. Oh I did at High School, they were something else.// |
| M1078 |
//No, oh me? No, no, never never once did I have a school lunch.//
I always went home for lunch. Mm. |
| F718 |
Did you, do you know what sorts of things people had at school lunches in those days? |
| M1078 |
Erm, er you certainly heard stories of what they
//[laugh] Uh-huh, yeah.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh] Sago and tapioca for you.// |
| M1078 |
And er stew.
//Erm,// |
| F718 |
//[cough]// |
| F1077 |
//Yeah.// |
| M1078 |
[exhale] I don't know if it was health-gi- healthy or not, well nothing like burgers.
//[inaudible] they didn't exist in those days.// |
| F718 |
//No.// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
Erm but er th- there was nothing, well cabbage always smelt the whole school out,
//when it was getting boiled up in the canteen, school canteen.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm. Cabbage does.// |
| M1078 |
Erm, it never smelt very satisfying anyway.
//[inaudible] enticing.// |
| F718 |
//No. [laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//The worst job was//
when you were on dinner duty when you had to clear the tables and you had to go to the slop bin with everything.
//I remember I dropped the plate in once.// |
| F718 |
//Ew!//
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//And it broke. [laugh] I didn't dare tell anybody.//
//[inaudible] Yeah.// |
| F718 |
//Did you just cover it up with some more tapioca and er. [laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//urgh// |
| M1078 |
//I would have thought every individual would have to take their own//
//plate back to a rack.// |
| F1077 |
//No, you had a a sort of monitor system,//
//and you were sort of probably on for a week and you were the one who cleared the table or something, or the one who brought the mashed potatoes or something.// |
| M1078 |
//Yeah. Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
Er, cause it was brought to the table in big bins.
And er the best pudding was fruit and shortbread.
//Used to get sort of mixed stewed fruit which was really quite nice, and// |
| F718 |
//Mm! Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
bits of shortbread and that was nice but everything else was rubbish.
//Except we used to get rice pudding with// |
| F718 |
//That sounds quite nice.// |
| F1077 |
rosehip syrup. |
| F718 |
Mm! |
| F1077 |
And I liked the rosehip syrup so I used to have a spoonful of that and that was it,
//without the rice pudding.// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
And Manchester tart, that was, do you have that?
//No, it was a kind of pastry base with a layer of jam and then cold custard on.// |
| F718 |
//[inaudible]// |
| M1078 |
//No, never heard of it. [cough]// |
| F718 |
Ew. |
| F1077 |
Yeah.
[inaudible]
//It probably was, but I just, I expected not to like sc- school dinners so I tended not to eat them.// |
| F718 |
//Probably alright actually, but it sounds a bit odd, custard in a tart. Yeah.//
//What sort of games did you play at school?// |
| F1077 |
//Erm.// |
| F718 |
At playtimes.
//Or was that before games were invented?// |
| M1078 |
//Marbles. [sniff]//
Or jauries,
they were called. Er,
mm just tig. [laugh] |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. |
| M1078 |
I can't remember.
//What else?// |
| F1077 |
//I was at primary school when the Hula Hoop first came out.// |
| F718 |
Mm. |
| F1077 |
//I got a pale green one.// |
| M1078 |
//Mm. Girls//
girls would have their ropes,
//skipping ropes.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.//
//Mm,// |
| M1078 |
//Can't//
//remember what else we might have done.// |
| F1077 |
//football? No, you wouldn't play football.// |
| M1078 |
No, not near all the windows in the school, [laugh]
//I didn't.// |
| F1077 |
//Just//
//stood on corners and talked, [laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//Er.// |
| F1077 |
a lot. |
| M1078 |
Mmhm.
Even as six year olds?
//[laugh] I don't know.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
Very sophisticated we were.
//Er,// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.//
I doubt it. |
| M1078 |
Probably remember all this afterwards, when you're away.
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//Mm. Well we can do it again some time. [laugh]// |
| M1078 |
Er. |
| F1077 |
I remember when P.E. used to be outside and you got these woven mats, they were sort of oval mats and you all had to take a mat out and put it on the playground and sort of lie on it and do exercises and things, as the weather was dry.
//It wasn't comfortable.// |
| M1078 |
//No, didn't do that.//
If it was warm in the summer, cause we did have playing fields at our
//primary school,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
er we would be out,
//running races and// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
doing things like that. |
| F1077 |
Sports day? |
| M1078 |
But we never played anything like football or cricket or hockey, or anything like that. There was never anything organised |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
by school
//for that. No, no.// |
| F718 |
//Not even in in P.E. sessions? No. Did you get P.E.?// |
| M1078 |
Yes, but then er in those days it was just, you just had one teacher for the whole year, |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
who taught
//academic subjects,// |
| F718 |
//Right.// |
| M1078 |
practical subjects and P.E. and whatever else.
//B- mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//This is primary school though?//
//Mmhm. Well I think that's that's true now, is it not?// |
| F1077 |
//They weren't, [inaudible], mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//There weren't specialists [?]brought in[/?] for that.//
//No, surely you have a gym teacher and you have a-. Och you must. Well in secondary school we did.// |
| F718 |
//No. I don't, well not in my day, you had the same teacher for everything.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm. Mm. Mm.//
//Aye, secondary school, yes, uh-huh.// |
| F718 |
//Secondary school, yeah, but that's very different.// |
| M1078 |
//Uh-huh. Oh?//
//In primary you don't.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//I I don't believe it's changed.// |
| M1078 |
//I don't know. Don't you get erm//
n-n- nomadic teachers? What's the other
//word? Okay.// |
| F718 |
//Peripatetic.// |
| F1077 |
//Peripatetic. [laugh]//
//Uh-huh. Well you do, you do for things like music. Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//You do for music and stuff. Uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//pathe- pathetic teachers. [inhale]. Uh-huh. Yes.// |
| F718 |
//I don't think you do for things like gym.// |
| F1077 |
//No.//
//Mm. You'd have to ask Carol.// |
| M1078 |
//Don't you? Mm.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
I can't see Carol er, oh we'd better not tape this!
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//Don't worry, we won't give her name out properly.// |
| M1078 |
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
Well, she plays badminton with her, |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. |
| M1078 |
or she takes them for badminton, right enough.
//So she teaches badminton at er primary,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm mm.// |
| F718 |
//Well there you go. Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//which seems to be a sort of regular thing.//
It's not an
//after-school activity, I don't think.// |
| F1077 |
//Oh was it? I thought it was maybe after school.//
//Uh-huh, because I remember her saying today that she'd said to them er "Certain things I have t-// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm. Mmhm. Exactly.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//you have//
to be here for, but, you know, sort of badminton, if you don't behave I can throw you out." |
| F718 |
Mm. |
| F1077 |
//So it must be er a voluntary thing.// |
| M1078 |
//Ah but it'll just be throw them out from//
you know, "Go and sit and watch, you're not playing, you're bad." |
| F1077 |
No, no no, no I think it was |
| M1078 |
Mm. |
| F1077 |
er
//they were there of their own free will. Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//After-school time, hours.//
//Oh, I don't know. Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Or something at lunchtime maybe.//
I had something else, I can't remember it. Oh yes I remember wh-, my mother used to work in a chocolate factory in er in Dundee called Lindsay and Rowe.
I remember that. |
| F718 |
What kind of chocolate did they make? |
| F1077 |
I don't know, I just knew it was a chocolate factory. It was something I kind of grew up knowing.
//And she used// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
to say, erm, it kind of put you off chocolate a
//bit, though she did// |
| F718 |
//Aye, I was gonna ask yeah.// |
| F1077 |
get her taste back for it after she left.
//I don't remember being off it,// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
er mm.
Erm, and my grandparents in Monifieth lived in a, the bottom floor of a tenement in er oh, Well- Wellside Place or something. I can't just remember the name.
//I remember they used to go in a dark close and there's this// |
| M1078 |
//Probably doesn't exist now.// |
| F1077 |
it was off to the right, and there was, oh there'd be a tiny wee sort of kitchen area.
//You went through that and you could get out// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
in, there was a a lovely green at the back and the washhouses at the far end.
There was a flower border right up the top of the flats,
and a very old tortoise lived there,
//called Toby.// |
| F718 |
//Oh!//
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
//Used to see him whenever I went. He was reputedly about a hundred years old but he probably wasn't really.// |
| M1078 |
//[pours coffee from cafetière]// |
| F718 |
Mm.
[takes coffee] Thank you. |
| F1077 |
But er, oh, [takes coffee] uh-huh.
//There was a big// |
| M1078 |
//[?]Alright[/?].// |
| F1077 |
big feather bed in the corner of the sort of living room.
They did have a bedroom but there was also a big, you know, in the
//the sort of erm, uh-huh in the recess there was a big feather bed,// |
| F718 |
//Mm. Yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//Bed recess.// |
| F1077 |
which was lovely.
And a little, the fireplace with the sort of wee seat that you could sit beside. |
| F718 |
Mm.
Ingle-nook, is that the word?
//Is that an ingle-nook?// |
| F1077 |
//Erm,//
//no, just a a sort of// |
| F718 |
//Right.// |
| F1077 |
you used to get fireplaces with the sort of beat-
//built-in// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
seats sort of at the corner,
//like little sort of stool things.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
I think it's that you sit on.
I can't remember if it had one of those or not. |
| F718 |
Did it have a built-in toilet, er an indoor toilet? |
| F1077 |
Erm, probably not.
I doubt it but I can't actually
//remember that.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
Although I must
have used it cause we used to go there for a week o- at a time.
//There w-w- wouldn't be a bathroom.// |
| M1078 |
//Never really visited my father's cousin who was// |
| F1077 |
No, wouldn't be a bathroom at all. |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
We-
//well Auntie Mina was round the// |
| F718 |
//Shared toilet?// |
| F1077 |
corner in Brook Street and she had a, they had an inside toilet but they didn't have a bathroom.
//And they had a tiny wee kitchen.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Mm.//
//So what did they have?// |
| F1077 |
//Erm, an-// |
| M1078 |
A tin bath to use in front of the fire? |
| F1077 |
Er, we just used to get wass- washed in the kitchen at the s- kitchen sink. |
| M1078 |
Well, you when you were visiting but
//what about others?// |
| F1077 |
//Yeah.//
//Oh I don't know, I don't think anyone.// |
| M1078 |
//Adults, who lived there?// |
| F1077 |
But they were posh cause they had a front room with a piano in it.
//It was a bedroom as well, but// |
| F718 |
//Mm.//
Uh-huh. |
| F1077 |
it had a a piano in it.
//Mmhm! [laugh]// |
| F718 |
//Er, okay, erm,//
you used to er mm er, there's two t- two er lines of thought I was going along at the same time,
you used to have roller skates, did you? Or roller skate,
//plu- singular? [laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//I I ha-, I had//
roller skates,
//yes.// |
| F718 |
//Was that when they were//
quite new? I haven't a clue when
//roller skates were introduced.// |
| M1078 |
//Oh no, they were, my cousin//
//Ian's handed down and Ruth's after him,// |
| F718 |
//Right, so you got them as hand-me-downs.// |
| M1078 |
to me.
Mmhm, I had them,
//yes.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.//
//You didn't use// |
| F1077 |
//You didn't use them.// |
| M1078 |
Never wore two at
//once.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
Did you alternate
//to save the tyres? [laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//And I didn't, er no.// |
| F1077 |
They didn't have tyres; they were metal wheels. |
| F718 |
Oh right. |
| F1077 |
//Ah.// |
| M1078 |
//No, they were, I think they were, well rubber//
//rubber tyres on metal.// |
| F1077 |
//Yeah my my first ones had metal wheels I'm//
//sure, and they made a heck of a racket when you went down the street on them.// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//They were certainly all all shiny metal//
frame,
//with a leather strap.// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh, uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm mm.//
//with th- that nut underneath that you used to adjust the length on them.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//But er, mmhm.// |
| F718 |
That was like my first pair of roller
//skates did, to adjust them.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm. [laugh] Yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//Uh-huh, but er// |
| F718 |
//What?// |
| F1077 |
//And the ones we put into the jumble sale down at the school.//
//Remember we put them in? Aye, there was there was something about it.// |
| F718 |
//Did you?// |
| F1077 |
Erm I remember
//somebody [inaudible].// |
| F718 |
//That's where mine went after I'd finished//
//with them, or// |
| F1077 |
//Uh-huh. Uh-huh.//
//I'm sure they did.// |
| F718 |
//where I got them from?// |
| F1077 |
//Had a a// |
| M1078 |
//Killed somebody afterwards.// |
| F718 |
//Aye, I don't remember that at all.// |
| F1077 |
//No, no.//
There was something about it. Did they used to bend or something?
No, there was something wrong with it, was it was it wonky wheel or something, but you could get new |
| F718 |
Right.
//Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
//what you called tyres for them.// |
| M1078 |
//Square.// |
| F1077 |
Uh-huh, it was a sort of square wheel on it. |
| F718 |
//Mm!// |
| M1078 |
//Skidding to a halt.// |
| F1077 |
But whether anyone would ever bother, putting another, uh-huh.
//Yeah. Very good for braking with.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah, no, that's familiar.//
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
Oh that kind of braking.
//Yes, mmhm. [laugh]// |
| F718 |
//Yes.// |
| F1077 |
//Yeah, aye well. [laugh]// |
| F718 |
Breaking your ankle probably as well [inaudible]. |
| F1077 |
Mmhm. |
| F718 |
//And were, were you also not one of the first people in Scotland to have jeans?// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
Oh aye. |
| F718 |
//What's the story?// |
| M1078 |
//[laugh] Quite er alle- erm//
er er yes, quite arguably.
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
My father's sister in America |
| F718 |
Mm. |
| M1078 |
er used to send over parcels, maybe two or three times a year.
//And er// |
| F718 |
//I thought you got them when you were out there?//
//You you were sent them? Right. Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//no, oh no, it was long before, long before that.//
It was when I got my first two-wheeled bike, |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
bicycle that, I think my ninth birthday that was.
Ninth or tenth.
And er it was just about then, a parcel arrived and there was a pair of jeans in it
//for me.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
And er I would wear them,
along with a sort of cowboy shirt,
//a checked,// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//quite warm, heavy, sort of shirt.//
//Yes, uh-huh, er well er.// |
| F718 |
//You must have stood out in Rutherglen! [laugh] Uh-huh.// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]//
//He was used to standing out, he used to go to the beach with a bow-tie on, didn't you?// |
| M1078 |
//There was nobody quite like it.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//Is this "get at Jim" night?//
//Is this what it's all about?// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//No, [laugh], you did.//
You did. We were talking about it last week when we were at Johnnie's. |
| F718 |
The beach down the West coast of Scotland,
//is that where you, day trips? Right, mm.// |
| M1078 |
//No, that was Eyemouth actually where that photograph was taken.//
Mmhm. |
| F718 |
So did you go down to, down to Ayr, down to Largs,
//and so on when you were// |
| M1078 |
//Yes, mmhm.//
//I gather my first holiday ever was in Ayr.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//I was//
too young to remember it.
Cause somebody my folks knew had a house in Ayr. |
| F718 |
Right.
//A a guest house or just they lived there? Right.// |
| M1078 |
//We went and stayed. No, just a hou-, well I don't know if it was a second house or//
I can't remember now what it was.
//Er it was their house and we went to stay in it.// |
| F718 |
//So you stayed with them? Uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
No, I don't think they were there.
//They were on holiday or something, they were away.// |
| F718 |
//Oh right, I see, right.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.//
You used to go up the North East as well, didn't you?
//I thought// |
| M1078 |
//No, my mother and father did.//
//Once we went to Aberdeen for a holiday, it was a disaster but er// |
| F1077 |
//oh, oh, I thought, oh I thought you went up with them as well.// |
| F718 |
//It was a disaster? Why?// |
| M1078 |
//No. Uh-huh. Well,//
normally we went to Arbroath, |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
more often we went to St Andrews,
//and we did have one holiday in Eyemouth// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
when I was young.
Er, no A- Aberdeen was a disaster because [laugh] the daughter of the the people who had the the boarding house,
//as it was called in those days,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
er wa- was stealing from my mother's purse, [laugh] which was left in
//the bedroom// |
| F718 |
//Oops.// |
| F1077 |
//Hm!// |
| M1078 |
and the police were involved and all that sort of thing.
Er it rather tainted our view of Aberdeen. [laugh] |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
I dare say it's not all like that. [laugh] |
| M1078 |
No, maybe not, but er, you know, something happens like
//that,// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
you have a a bad impression of the whole place. |
| F718 |
Mm. |
| M1078 |
Besides, I don't remember the weather being particularly good, and it was just a big city after all, it wasn't really a holiday place,
//although it had the// |
| F718 |
//Mm mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//There's a beach.// |
| M1078 |
//the Beach Ballroom, and, which well which wasn't in a//
//[inaudible]// |
| F718 |
//Beach ballroom?// |
| M1078 |
Hm it's still famous in
//Aberdeen, Beach Ballroom, oh yes.// |
| F718 |
//They still got one? Oh.// |
| M1078 |
Erm,
//I don't know what it's used for now, no, it's prob-, uh-huh, probably more a// |
| F718 |
//Is it still a ballroom or is it like a club now? Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
a club but it was, you know, famous, always been famous as
//the Beach Ba- Ballroom.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.//
Mm. |
| M1078 |
Mmhm, no my mother and father |
| F718 |
Mm. |
| M1078 |
once I stopped going on holidays with them went to places like [exhale]. |
| F1077 |
Up sort of the Black Isle area? |
| M1078 |
No, it was below that, eh.
//Aye,// |
| F1077 |
//Elgin, Inverness?// |
| M1078 |
sort of Ellon, Ellon, Elgin, Ellon, there was one place in
//particular.// |
| F1077 |
//Nairn?// |
| M1078 |
No.
//They sort of// |
| F718 |
//Forres?// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//toured around there from where they were based.//
//Pit- New Pitsligo.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.//
//Oh yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//[inaudible] you'd been there.// |
| M1078 |
//That's where they stayed.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah, I di- [laugh].// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Is that near Peterhead, isn't it, up a bit?// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm [inhale]//
//Well it's inland quite a bit from there, mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
Up in that area,
//the North East.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm. Buchan.// |
| F1077 |
//[inaudible]// |
| M1078 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
But you used to get your meals included, didn't you, alth- it was a boarding house, and you used to get all your meals. |
| M1078 |
Well you had either er full-board or half-board. |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| M1078 |
Or you had attendance,
in the sort of early years after the war. [laugh] |
| F718 |
What do you mean by 'attendance'? |
| M1078 |
Erm, the landlady cooked your own food for you.
//I suppose it w- was down to rationing.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//Right yeah.// |
| M1078 |
//And//
landladies couldn't go out and buy
//what they needed for// |
| F718 |
//Yeah.//
//Uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//all their boarders.//
So er you took your own coupons. You got, well
//you either got// |
| F718 |
//Right.// |
| M1078 |
your own food and brought it in or you gave the coupons to the landlady and she went
//and registered them at// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
her own
//butcher and grocer and whoever.// |
| F718 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
And er, so in effect it was your food,
//and she just made it for you.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah. Mm.//
//Bizarre. [laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//I didn't know that.// |
| M1078 |
//But//
er aye well that was because of the War,
//pa- post-War er the post-War years and rationing still being a feature.// |
| F718 |
//Yeah. Mmhm.//
Did you holiday much in Scotland when you were young, before you moved up here?
//Well Dundee, [inaudible] mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//Well, yes, in that relatives, uh-huh, er Monifieth was the the usual place.// |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
Er used to come up, usually just with my mum,
er my dad would be working,
//bu-// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
apart from that the first holiday I remember was in Redcar in a caravan, er I think it rained
//all week.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
And er I remember buying a little, Sheila, that's my sister, and I were there, and we bought little ornaments and one was a little sort of woman with a barrel beside her you kept matches in.
And the other w- had a little sort of apron on and it changed colour, blue when it was going to rain and pink when it was going to be dry or something.
And I remember they used to be in the the sort of display cupboard bit at home,
//and I broke one of them one day// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
and I remember I I hid the bits in the sugar bowl [laugh] and I hoped they would
//never be found, and eventually they were.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//[laugh]//
//I was kind of hoping nobody would ever use the// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//sugar, and they wouldn't miss them. Er,//
didn't know anything about it when they were found.
//[laugh]// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]//
I take it you didn't get away with it?
//[laugh] Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
//No, I think they suspected me.//
//Mm. And apart from that we used to go to Whitby.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
Erm cause a a mate of my dad's at work had a caravan and he used to to drive us through to the caravan site there. |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
Or we'd go to Scarborough because there was cricket there and my dad liked the cricket. [laugh] |
| F718 |
To play, or just to watch?
//Mm [sniff]// |
| F1077 |
//No, no, no he just watched.// |
| F718 |
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
Er but Monifieth was sort of the the place I came to mu- most often. |
| F718 |
Mmhm.
//Was there much there really?// |
| F1077 |
//No-//
//No, [laugh] erm// |
| F718 |
//[laugh] Is there much there now? [laugh]// |
| M1078 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
the- there's probably more now.
//Well// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
certainly more houses.
//But// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
y- you just some of came and sort of visited relatives and
//and went to the beach,// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
played all on the beach and er I remember visiting my cousin. She was in the school,
on the main s-, on the high street in Monifieth and we went along one day at playtime and spoke through the railings to her,
like being at the zoo.
//Er,// |
| F718 |
//[laugh] Yeah.// |
| F1077 |
I do- I don't remember there being anything on the beach except you used to collect shells. |
| F718 |
Uh-huh. |
| F1077 |
And er further along, you would only be able to go so far along because it was Barry Budden, which was, was that an Army
//camp or something?// |
| M1078 |
//Uh-huh, it was a camp.// |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
//And then the other way was//
Broughty Ferry which was where my mum and dad had met because my dad was stationed there,
//erm er in the Army,// |
| F718 |
//Right.// |
| F1077 |
so they met through that. |
| F718 |
Mm.
//Shall we stop there?// |
| M1078 |
//And// |
| F718 |
//Are you, d- about to say something? Carry on if// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm mmhm, that's probably// |
| F718 |
//you, you do.// |
| M1078 |
//I was gonna ask//
mother a question.
//Er,// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
er how long was he there in the Army, cause he was abroad as well, wasn't he? |
| F718 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
//Oh yes, he was abroad//
during the War.
//Uh-huh. He joined the Army early.// |
| M1078 |
//Sudan. [laugh] [inaudible]// |
| F1077 |
He gave a false birthday,
so he always reckoned he had two birthdays like the Queen.
//Erm, I can't remember what age// |
| F718 |
//[laugh] And Paddington.// |
| F1077 |
he was when he joined but I've got his papers and things upstairs somewhere.
Erm, he was in, he must have been stationed up there before he was sent abroad.
//Erm,// |
| F718 |
//Why Broughty Ferry?// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm or before.// |
| F718 |
//Just cause it's sort of out of the way and [inaudible]// |
| F1077 |
//th-//
//I suppose it was popular as a training place. Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//relatively unpopulated. Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//I suppose Dundee was an ind-, heavy industry in Dundee maybe they were// |
| F718 |
Right. |
| F1077 |
//And in fact, well my mum lived there after Sheila was born in nineteen thirty-nine.// |
| M1078 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F1077 |
And my dad er must have gone abroad then or shortly after then. |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
Erm I can't remember if he was abroad when she was born.
I don't think so. And my mum lived with her parents in er Monifieth
//for a while.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
//And then when they moved south, erm, Sheila can remember they lived with my my gran, that's my dad's mother, in Stockton,// |
| M1078 |
//[throat]// |
| F1077 |
cause she remembers it, it was a a dark house and she was scared going upstairs cause it was dark and everything, she didn't like it there.
Erm and then by the time I was born we'd moved to Norton,
cause I was eight years younger. |
| F718 |
Yep. |
| F1077 |
Still am. |
| F718 |
Yep. [laugh] |
| M1078 |
Baby boomer. |
| F1077 |
Mm? |
| M1078 |
A baby boomer. |
| F1077 |
Well no, it was really the year before, cause the year above us at school had an extra stream in it because there was
//so many.// |
| M1078 |
//Mm.// |
| F1077 |
It was really |
| M1078 |
I thought from forty-six onwards.
//Baby boom time.// |
| F1077 |
//Well, mm.//
Yeah, but
//well uh-huh.// |
| M1078 |
//Building up to it.// |
| F718 |
//[laugh]// |
| F1077 |
//It must have slackened off a bit after the first boom. [laugh]// |
| F718 |
[laugh] |
| F1077 |
Uh-huh.
But we used to have lots of sort of postcards and things that my dad sent, and photographs he sent sent home.
//Mm.// |
| M1078 |
//Where in particular was he abroad,//
//if you remember?// |
| F1077 |
//He was in India.// |
| M1078 |
Mmhm. |
| F1077 |
Erm and I'm sure he was in Africa as
//well.// |
| M1078 |
//Mmhm.// |
| F1077 |
But India, erm I remember and
//er I remember pictures of him with a horse.// |
| M1078 |
//Well [inaudible].// |
| F1077 |
And he was a gunner.
Pictures of him standing beside his big gun, he had a sort of |
| M1078 |
Mmhm.
//Does it// |
| F1077 |
//like cannon thing.//
//Mmhm.// |
| F718 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M1078 |
//tell you on the medals you've got,//
//which campaigns they were?// |
| F1077 |
//It will do. Uh-huh, I'm sure it will, uh-huh.//
But he was certainly in India, cause I remember hearing about it.
Mm, aye.
And then he n- he didn't want to travel after that. He said he'd travelled enough during the War so he was never interested in going, anywhere. [laugh] |
| F718 |
Okay?
//Will we stop there? Okay.// |
| F1077 |
//Mmhm, mmhm.// |
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