| M608 |
Okay, I mean you both hit your seventieth birthdays this year, er so you were born, what? Nineteen thirty-three? |
| M636 |
//Thirty-two.// |
| M635 |
//[?]Have you[/?].//
Two. |
| M608 |
Thirty-two? Of course, this is now two thousand and two - I can't count.
Erm, and you both born in Auchinleck, obviously, and you were twins in a family of, what, five? |
| M636 |
That's right. |
| M608 |
Hm and [?]dad[/?], [hm], I mean, what what is the earliest thing that you can remember?
//[inaudible]// |
| M635 |
//Well, the earliest//
thing I can remember, or one of the earliest things I can remember, is the fact that we flitted er to 15 Hillside Crescent on the day that war was declared in 1939. |
| M608 |
Oh right! |
| M635 |
Third of December.
//And the day// |
| M608 |
//Oh right.// |
| M635 |
after, the train brought eh evacuees from Glasgow, |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| M635 |
to live in Ayr during the, eh, to live
//rather in Auchinleck,// |
| M636 |
//Auch- Auchinleck.// |
| M635 |
during the time of the war. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M635 |
And eh and so we had i- oh everybody had, some, in in their class, some evacuees, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M635 |
who in fact, on some occasions, remained in Auchinleck long after the war was finished. |
| M608 |
mmhm
Yeah. |
| M635 |
So that's one of my early recollections. |
| M608 |
Aye but you'd be, what, eight at that time? |
| M635 |
No,
//eh// |
| M636 |
//Thirty-nine.// |
| M635 |
in nineteen
//thirty-// |
| M636 |
//Seven.// |
| M635 |
two to nineteen thirty-nine is seven,
//[sniff].// |
| M608 |
//Yeah.// |
| M635 |
Seven at the time, so to to to some extent, ehm we we were, we lost a lot of our schooling, because eh all the male teachers were away to war. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M635 |
And eh, and retired female teachers were drafted in to take their place. |
| M608 |
Right. |
| M635 |
And eh, so we can blame Hitler for a lot of our |
| M608 |
[laugh] |
| M635 |
of our problems.
But erm, because, eh I can remember having female teachers all through our schooling,
//aged// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M635 |
up until, aged about twelve anyway.
//And then the// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M635 |
teachers began to drift back from the war
//once the war was// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M635 |
finished and they'd been erm eh demobbed, |
| M608 |
mm |
| M635 |
er, we we we started getting real teachers for the first
//time.// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| M635 |
But by that time we were at at at the Academy level. |
| M608 |
Okay.
You went to primary school in Auchinleck? |
| M636 |
Right. Aye, but you you mentioned about the the earliest recollection. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| M636 |
Eh, I can remember w-w- eh, the war was declared on the third of September and we flitted, and it was a cousin of my father's, eh, who had a dairy.
'Member? |
| M635 |
//mm// |
| M608 |
//oh right.// |
| M636 |
He had a dairy, and he had this mm eh, horse and cart. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And it and it was he who did the flitting. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| M636 |
And I think it was, was was war declared on the Sunday and and we flitted on
//the Monday?// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible]//
on the Monday. |
| M636 |
On the Monday.
And I can remember quite clearly, coming back from the school, the two of us, and we, instead of going to Hillside Crescent, we came back to 129 Dalsalloch. |
| M608 |
You went to the wrong house?
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
//Oh wait, remember that?// |
| M635 |
//[laugh]//
//mm mm// |
| M608 |
//Is that because, is that cause you'd heard that war was declared?// |
| M636 |
//No, because we had forgotten we had// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible]// |
| M636 |
//flitted!// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| M635 |
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
//And eh,// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
//but,// |
| M635 |
//That's true!// |
| M636 |
that that I can remember that and and neighbours reminding us that w- we were in a new house.
And we'd to make wir way along the row. |
| M608 |
Was it far away? |
| M636 |
No. |
| M635 |
Not very. |
| M636 |
In in today's time, it probably about five or six minutes away. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
Eh but eh, aye, that's and and and is, ye- your dad mentions the fact that that the evacuees coming in to Auchinleck station, quite early on, from Glasgow, and |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| M636 |
and eh other places, and being eh billeted,
//for the [inaudible].// |
| M608 |
//Were the evacuees in your class?// |
| M636 |
There were, there there was quite a few.
I can remember one girl, eh and I can remember her name - Betty Langden. |
| M635 |
//mm// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| M636 |
'Member that? She was tall. And she she stayed with a family called the eh Breckenridge. |
| M635 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And and eh, and she stayed on for quite a while, whether it was because of circumstances, I don't know, but eh, aye there were quite a few, eh |
| M608 |
mm
//Were they treated any// |
| M636 |
//evacuees.// |
| M608 |
differently, I mean, in relation [inaudible] |
| M636 |
//[tut], no.// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible] I don't think so.//
//No, I've no recollection, I mean we were young enough just to accept them// |
| M636 |
//[throat]// |
| M635 |
for what they were.
//Er,// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M635 |
I mean
//th- they// |
| M636 |
//mm// |
| M635 |
just integrated
//and// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| M636 |
//Aye.// |
| M635 |
//became part//
and parcel
//of the school classroom// |
| M636 |
//I was, aye,//
//mm.// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible].// |
| M608 |
//Were you wi-, were you aware of them//
speaking differently, did they have accent [inaudible]? |
| M636 |
No, I think they were actually, there were no toughies among them,
//that I can recollect.// |
| M635 |
//Mm, no.// |
| M636 |
Eh, they just |
| M635 |
Aye. |
| M636 |
the- they made the class sizes bigger. |
| M608 |
mmhm
//How big were the classes?// |
| M636 |
//ah eh//
//They were big classes.// |
| M635 |
//There would probably//
be between thirty and forty I would think, in those
//days.// |
| M636 |
//Oh//
easily, and i- and the the thing was that yo- it was all, I I never had a male teacher, |
| M635 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
till I went to A- the Academy: it was all female.
And and when you move from one class to another, you usually move from say Miss A's class to Miss B's.
//But// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M636 |
because of the war, sometimes Miss A moved on to the higher class, remember that?
//So you had// |
| M635 |
//mm// |
| M636 |
Miss A for maybe one year, two year, even three years.
And if you and Miss A were not the best of friends, which could happen,
too bad! |
| M608 |
mm |
| M636 |
You know, y-y-y- you weren't actually the flavour of the month for three years.
Eh, but eh and and some of them were retired teachers. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
Eh, or teachers that had left the profession and had come back because of the war years.
That's what I can remember about
//Auchinleck.// |
| M608 |
//Aye.//
Were there any other twins, or were you? |
| M636 |
//[tut] We were the only twins.// |
| M635 |
//Morag.//
Aye.
//Morag [?]Letchenby[/?].// |
| M636 |
//And//
and it was a bit of an embarrassment, because eh, [exhale] how d- how how how can you put this? |
| M608 |
Were you in the same class? |
| M636 |
We were in the same class. You were called Billy, weren't you? |
| M635 |
Hmm well. |
| M636 |
And I was called Nelson, and I hated it, because it seemed to be such a kind of queer name. |
| M608 |
mmhm
Why are you called Nelson? |
| M636 |
Nelson? Well, I'll tell you why I'm called Nelson.
I'll try and make it as brief.
My mother had an uncle, from about Liverpool area.
//And his name was.// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible] Newcastle area?// |
| M636 |
Newcastle area, was it?
And he was he was called Gavin Nelson. |
| M608 |
Okay. |
| M636 |
And my mother as a young woman used to go there - they had no family. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And eh she always enjoyed, when she was there, and because they had no family she always thought in the back of her mind, if she had a wee boy she would eh give him a name that would remember her uncle, Gavin Nelson. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
Course, when we arrived as twins, eh
//and in tho-// |
| M608 |
//They were going spare?// |
| M636 |
in those days, I mean you didn't know you were having twins till they arrived.
//Eh, eh there was no// |
| M635 |
//[laugh]. Half an hour.// |
| M636 |
there were no eh
[tut]
//[cough]// |
| M608 |
//[inaudible]//
the tests? |
| M636 |
tests on- in any sense and and there was no eh scanning,
eh eh away back in 1932, and when I arrived eh half an hour earlier than yer dad, they thought that was it,
finished, and then he arrived.
And
//eh// |
| M635 |
//The//
doctor I think put a torch on and and said "Oh Annie, there's somebody else, an- there's another biddie",
//[inaudible] [laugh]// |
| M636 |
//That's so- something like that.//
//Aye, and eh,// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible] [?]Auntie Peg[/?].// |
| M608 |
//[laugh] [laugh]// |
| M636 |
And we were born in, we were born in the house at at 129 Dalsalloch Row. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| M636 |
And eh in that, at that time, eh there was my my mu-, my my mother of course, naturally, my dad and my granny Young, my mother's mother. |
| M608 |
She was staying? |
| M636 |
She was staying with us.
//And th- there was// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible]//
//There was my sister, Anne.// |
| M636 |
//Eh yeah, there was my sister, Anne.//
//Your Aunt Anne, your Uncle Bert,// |
| M608 |
//[?]Yeah.[/?] uh-huh// |
| M636 |
and John. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| M636 |
He had been born in 1926. |
| M608 |
mm |
| M636 |
And that was all in, in what? Two rooms and a a kitchen? |
| M635 |
Yes, that's
//right.// |
| M636 |
//You know?// |
| M635 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
My gran, my granny had come to stay with us I think when she was about
//seventy.// |
| M635 |
//[?]I still[/?]//
remember Hillside Crescent, it was the back room.
Every every room had a fire. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
//Aye.// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible]//
coal fire, cause, because we were in a mining area.
And eh, but it was the four boys, sleeping in that room, eh during the
//[inaudible]// |
| M636 |
//[sniff]// |
| M635 |
ah the early days there,
//until// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M635 |
until they were old enough to be called up for the, for the, to the army.
And eh and then they went off to war, and and we were, it was just, we had one roo-, we'd a bed each,
//after// |
| M636 |
//mmhm [sniff]// |
| M635 |
that,
er, which was much more civilised. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M635 |
But ehm, eh, I can recollect, another recollection is of, I think it was my brother, John,
who was eh, be- he was he was called up for the army. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M635 |
And J- Bert was already away.
//We used to call him Bert at home.// |
| M636 |
//[sniff] [exhale]// |
| M635 |
Er, other people call him Bob.
But eh, the the night that he was going south for the first time,
there was the train-load leaving Glasgow, [cough],
and coming down through Auchinleck eh station,
//and// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M635 |
carrying on down to London.
And, [cough] and I can recollect that my, I think my parents went down to the station,
[cough] [?]emotiveness[/?], and waved to to this train that was thundering through. |
| M608 |
Oh right. |
| M635 |
And ehm [cough] they didn't know wh-, oh pardon me, whether they'd ever see him again. |
| M608 |
oh right. |
| M635 |
And eh [cough] |
| M636 |
[cough] |
| M635 |
course they did, but
[inaudible] one of my memories.
Yeah. You'd be quite young at that time.
mmhm |
| M636 |
Eh,
well,
//eh well, naw, eh John John John John was called up,// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible]//
fourteen, something like that. |
| M636 |
A- eh he was he was he was a grocer, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
in in in in the local Cooperative. |
| M608 |
Who was? |
| M636 |
My brother John.
Your Uncle John. |
| M608 |
Was he? |
| M636 |
Aye, and he was, he got his licence, his driving licence, when he was sixteen. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| M636 |
Because of the number of young men that had been called up. |
| M608 |
Right. |
| M636 |
And and eh some of the older men, who were drivers, were only eh horse and cart drivers. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
You know, they still had the horses.
And eh he got his, this special dispensation, at sixteen, and he was driving a van. |
| M635 |
Aye. |
| M636 |
'Member that?
//And eh// |
| M635 |
//Usually//
potatoes, he he he drove away int- into the country. |
| M636 |
That's right, he'd a
//country run.// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible] farmers//
and we sometimes got, we got going with him. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And of course, eh, eh th- eh this dispensation lasted till he was eighteen.
//So,// |
| M608 |
//Right.// |
| M636 |
so when he was eighteen, he we-, he was called up.
'Member that?
And that that's when he he, and he joined the Royal Scots Fusiliers. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
Eh, and then, he he landed in eh, eh he landed in India,
just about near the end of the war.
And and eh, his brother Bert and he met in in eh Delhi. |
| M635 |
In Delhi. |
| M636 |
Eh, you know, they'd arranged to meet, and they met, and eh,
th- that eh, and I think, my brother Bert who had been in eh, stationed in Kuala Lumpur, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
eh at that time, guarding Japanese prisoners, who were the officer class, |
| M608 |
mm |
| M636 |
cause I remember he got a a sword. |
| M635 |
A kukri. |
| M636 |
Eh, ah but that was because he was attached to the three-six Gurka Rifles. |
| M635 |
//uh-huh// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M636 |
But the the sword that he actually managed to persuade a Japanese officer to part with it, now whether it was a gentle persuasion or whether it was because th- the chap was a prisoner and he he was able to put some pressure on him, I don't know, but
he had that sword, that Japanese sword,
and eh I suppose his his widow still has it.
But eh, th- they met there, and also I think he was down, because I'll tell you who was being installed;
eh it was before eh Mountbatten
was the last viceroy of India, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
before eh India became independent.
And it was a chap called Lord [?]Vavell[/?], Wavell, wasn't it? |
| M635 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And th- they had had a sort of big end-of-ehwar banquet, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
at this, the viceroy lodge.
And that's when he came, and and John met him in Delhi. |
| M635 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
Eh
//just for a, just for a brief// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible]//
think they both met [inaudible] Mountbatten, yeah. |
| M636 |
Mountbatten wisnae there then.
//Mount-// |
| M635 |
//He was there at//
some stage
//though, they met him// |
| M636 |
//Aye.// |
| M635 |
at some stage; I can't remember exactly how. |
| M636 |
Mountbatten didn't; Mo- Mountbatten would be, would follow Lord Wavell. |
| M608 |
mm |
| M636 |
Eh, but eh whether they met Mountbatten or not I don- I don't remember. |
| M635 |
Oh maybe ma- Mount- met him before he
//became// |
| M636 |
//Aye.// |
| M635 |
eh vice- |
| M636 |
Cause he was supreme commander in Burma, wasn't he? |
| M635 |
And English [?]Hindu[/?] [inaudible]. |
| M636 |
[sniff] |
| M608 |
Du- during the war obviously, my my grandfather Corbett would be working in the mines and
//[inaudible]// |
| M636 |
//Full-time, seven days a week.// |
| M635 |
//Oh aye.// |
| M608 |
Aye.
But there was no question that |
| M636 |
Spewin the coal out. |
| M608 |
boys would go into the, down the pits? |
| M636 |
Well, when your Uncle Bert, when your Uncle Bert left school, eh he wanted to be a surveyor, a mining surveyor.
And he left school when he was sixteen, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
and took up an apprenticeship at the local s- eh coal-mining survey.
The f- the firm that it was then - it was before the national coal board - Baird and Dalmellington was a private company. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
Eh, but he never liked it. |
| M608 |
mm |
| M636 |
He didn't want to be a a surveyor down the mines.
And he was eh, able to get back to the school. |
| M635 |
Back to school!
//[inaudible] went to University.// |
| M636 |
//Took his Highers, and eh did did very well, went to University, and well, the rest's history.// |
| M635 |
But eh, |
| M608 |
None of the rest of you, er? |
| M636 |
No.
John was a grocer in a store and was as happy as Larry,
//and I// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
I hated the school,
from the beginning to the end, so there was no way I was gonna be,
that, I would say, and your dad may agree or disagree,
that the cleverest one in our family was my sister. |
| M635 |
[tut] possibly. |
| M636 |
But, because she was the e- eldest, she had to leave school when she was fourteen.
And eh she was, she stood in a a local draper's, MacMillan's the draper's? |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
As an assistant in there.
//And.// |
| M635 |
//Until//
she was old enough to go oot and
//go to nursing.// |
| M636 |
//To go to nursing.// |
| M635 |
She always wanted
//to be a nurse.// |
| M636 |
//To be a nurse.// |
| M608 |
mm |
| M636 |
But sh-, in today's world, she would have been a a a university graduate. |
| M635 |
Yeah.
//[inaudible]// |
| M636 |
//Oh undoubtedly.//
Aye, [sniff]
And she always regretted that, but then that was the circumstances, eh, [cough] money was short, John.
Money was short in |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| M636 |
in those days, and I mean there was, is, there was one, there was one wage keeping eh my granny and the rest of the family. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And eh, it it it was it was necessary, in fact, and my mother used to say quite often, she never really felt it easy till John started working in the in the grocer's. |
| M635 |
//mm// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| M636 |
Is that right? |
| M608 |
[?]Children[/?] |
| M636 |
Plus the fact, when you were in a van, eh it was, ah rationing period. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And eh certain, alphabet was drawn up, that A to C would get cakes a certain day, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
D to so-and-so would get cakes a certain day,
but the Corbetts got cakes every
//day,// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
//because [laugh]// |
| M635 |
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
because eh you know eh, the van was there. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| M636 |
And eh it was what you might call a wee a wee eh |
| M635 |
A wee erm,
//E-e- extra perk. Aye.// |
| M636 |
//Perk! A a wee a wee perk during the the the grim years.//
But eh, |
| M635 |
We also used to cycle for half a dozen eggs. |
| M636 |
Aye. [laugh] |
| M635 |
Used to cycle to a farm about, oh, how many miles? |
| M636 |
Oh about two to three miles away. |
| M635 |
Three miles there and back.
At eh Duncan's farm, for half a dozen eggs. |
| M608 |
mm |
| M635 |
Did that once a week, yeah. |
| M636 |
Every Friday.
Hail, rain or shine. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
eh |
| M635 |
One of us. |
| M636 |
But we- well we'd go for eggs, fresh eggs. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| M636 |
Cause, I mean it was the dried and powdered eggs you were gettin durin the war.
And eh I would get I would get eh sour milk,
because my mother baked, |
| M635 |
//mm// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| M636 |
quite a bit.
And eh I would have the eggs in one bit of the bike, and |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
and the sour milk over the handlebars.
I never, I can never recollect whether it was half-full or half-empty when I got
//back, but it was,// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
it was eh it was a lonely road, too. |
| M635 |
//Oh aye!// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| M636 |
Mind you were away in the country. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And and in the wintertime, you come back from the school, it was dark.
And my father had eh gone back, he had eh I had his bike for cycling to work.
But i- it was the the lights on the bike were by, lit by carbide. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
And eh he would light yer, and they were
//terrific lights.// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible]//
carbide lamps. |
| M636 |
And he would get these carbide lights ready for you, and he would put it onto your bracket at the front, and your tail-light at the back.
And you really i-, you thought you were the king,
and he could, that right? |
| M635 |
And it- aye, there was very very little traffic. |
| M636 |
Oh aye.
[sniff] |
| M608 |
mm |
| M636 |
Different ball-, I mean you had r- you had, there were room for the bikes on the roads then. |
| M635 |
Oh aye. |
| M636 |
But eh, that's eh, |
| M608 |
And what did you do for leisure, I mean, did you play football and stuff like
//that?// |
| M636 |
//Played//
football.
I'd a paper-run. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| M636 |
Yer dad was never keen on paper-runs. |
| M635 |
I w- [laugh]
//[laugh]// |
| M636 |
//Eh// |
| M635 |
I had one for a shop
//[inaudible] but,// |
| M636 |
//Aye.//
//That was to the to the eh aye, eh.// |
| M635 |
//[inaudible] I opted out of paper-runs [inaudible] me.// |
| M636 |
Eh, a- yer Uncle John had a paper-run.
//And// |
| M635 |
//Aye.// |
| M636 |
I inherited it, when he was older,
when he started to get fed up. |
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