| F640 |
It was just slow and she used tae
//poke him.// |
| F637 |
//oh, poke him.//
Terrible in't it? |
| F640 |
//It was Miss [?]Hamell[/?].// |
| F638 |
//And mind//
mind big tumshie Thomson? Miss Loudon poked him wi the poker and he wet his troosers. [laugh]
//He wanted oot// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
to the toilet and she wouldn't let him go. |
| F640 |
[laugh] |
| F637 |
//ah, but a boy, a boy in my class// |
| F638 |
//And that's what he did!// |
| F637 |
did worse than that, and it fell doon the leg and
//ontae the [laugh].// |
| F638 |
//But, I mean eh.// |
| F637 |
And the janny had tae come; they,
//she shunted us aw oot.// |
| F638 |
//But re-//
remember the [CENSORED: surname] sisters? |
| F640 |
oh aye, uh-huh. |
| F638 |
Well I had |
| F640 |
Cause I had the one wi the great big |
| F638 |
Right! Well I had Miss [CENSORED: surname], no the gym teacher, the other one. |
| F640 |
No! |
| F638 |
She was the first punk-rocker.
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
She came tae school on a motorbike,
//John.// |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| F638 |
Noo, we're talkin years ago. |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| M608 |
//This was a teacher?// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//A teacher.//
Miss [CENSORED: surname]. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
Well her sister was the gym teacher, but the one I had,
//eh ye had her for a// |
| F637 |
//I had her as well.// |
| F638 |
year, you know
//how.// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
And, ehm I mean, she'd hems on her skirts, they were about eight inches in that her skirt. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
She wore a leather coat. |
| F638 |
She came to her her eh the school on a motorbike, wi the full leathers on. |
| M608 |
[laugh] |
| F638 |
And ye know the pilots' helmets? |
| F637 |
Fae the First World
//War [laugh].// |
| F638 |
//Like that wi the goggles on?//
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
And the great big gauntlets and she came in a
//motorbike. So she did!// |
| F637 |
//ah but I'll tell ye something else.//
Do you know her father and her brother were headmasters at [CENSORED: placename] School? And that's where she was brought up, in [CENSORED: placename]. |
| M608 |
oh right? |
| F637 |
That's right.
//Her// |
| M608 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
father and her brother; her father was the headmaster first. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And then her brother followed on.
And he was the the headmaster at [CENSORED: placename]. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
And eh, that's where she was brought up, in the school house at [CENSORED: placename]. |
| F638 |
oh she came to a, the school on a
//motorbike!// |
| F637 |
//I know that!//
//Well it would be a long walk fae// |
| F638 |
//In full leathers.// |
| F637 |
//[CENSORED: placename] tae tae Russell// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//Street school!// |
| F638 |
//But, I mean, she could have got//
a bus [laugh]. She came on her motorbike. I'll never forget
//her, never.// |
| F637 |
//I know that, and it was a great big//
motorbike,
//ye know.// |
| M608 |
//And what kind of,//
what kind of ages would she teach? |
| F637 |
//She taught us from seven.// |
| F638 |
//She taught us eh when we//
went up th-.
//No!// |
| F637 |
//When you went up//
at seven,
//seven tae eight// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]//
seven |
| F637 |
uh-huh |
| F640 |
cause I got |
| F637 |
Cause ye w- ye went tae the primary fae ye were five tae ye were seven.
//And then ye went up. No, no no. Five tae// |
| F638 |
//Ye were longer than that, were ye no in the primary school?// |
| F637 |
ye were seven and then ye went up tae the big school. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And ye were there fae ye were, fae ye were eh, between seven and eight, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
Till ye we- were, eh, fourteen. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
But at twelve, ye got a chance tae go and sit the exams tae go tae the Academy. |
| F640 |
//Eleven// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F640 |
Plus. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
//It was,// |
| F638 |
//mm// |
| F637 |
it was called the 'qualifying' then. |
| F640 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And, ye got a chance tae sit that.
And I went and sat it at ehm, the grammar school. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And I passed.
And then my mother says, "Ye cannae go, cause I huvnae got enough money
//for yer// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F637 |
uniform and books and everything", so I never
//got going.// |
| M608 |
//mmhm//
mmhm |
| F637 |
But, ye got a chance when ye were twelve, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
to go to the Academy, which was eh, a lot of them it was kinda fee-payin.
More,
//more or less fee-payin.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]//
preparatory school but
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//uh-huh// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F637 |
//Aye but yo-,// |
| F638 |
//Aye, you went.// |
| F637 |
when you went. It was different when we were there, Eleanor, cause ye had |
| F640 |
[inaudible] |
| F637 |
Aye and ye'd aw yer books
//tae buy.// |
| F638 |
//Did ye?// |
| F637 |
uh-huh, an. |
| F640 |
Something probably. |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F638 |
I ne-, I never ever remem-, course I never got the chance tae go!
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible] did too.// |
| F638 |
[laugh] |
| F637 |
We came a-, when we were doin the flittin, we came across her eh one and only prize that she ever got. |
| F638 |
I've got two prizes
//now.// |
| F637 |
//Ye haven't.// |
| F638 |
I have so! I've got two Su-, I've got a book from the
//Sunday school.// |
| F637 |
//oh yes.//
uh-huh |
| F638 |
And I've got a pr- eh. |
| F637 |
Certificate
//[laugh] [?]for daein yer work![/?]// |
| F638 |
//Of merit!//
It's a certificate of merit from St Joseph's Academy,
for bein the best, eh, eh, wha-wha- what did it say? eh, it's here. |
| M608 |
[?]You turned up?[/?] |
| F637 |
Aye. |
| M608 |
Worked [?]too thoroughly[/?]. |
| F638 |
I've got, I've got a certificate from the school and I'm gonnae frame it. See that, John? |
| M608 |
oh right.
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//I've got a gold merit certificate in catering,// |
| M608 |
[laugh] |
| F638 |
from the teachers at the school.
Even the headmistress, Bridget Rooney, signed it! |
| M608 |
That that that that's superb. I mean, that's even better than a Scotvec. |
| F638 |
I'm tellin ye! |
| F640 |
[laugh] |
| F638 |
I'm gonnae frame that. [laugh] |
| M608 |
[laugh] |
| F638 |
I mean it's my one and only, John! |
| M608 |
Why did they give that to you? |
| F638 |
eh? |
| M608 |
When did they give that to you? |
| F638 |
They gave me it when I left there in eh June. |
| M608 |
oh, that's nice. |
| F638 |
And a big bouquet of flowers and seventy-five pounds! |
| M608 |
Very nice. |
| F638 |
mmhm |
| F640 |
So what did ye no like aboot the school, Mary? |
| F638 |
I just hated it. |
| F637 |
When she was young? |
| F640 |
//Aye.// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F637 |
oh she gret tae get, and when she got she used
//to be sick every mornin.// |
| F638 |
//Hated the school.//
I hated it. |
| F637 |
She hated it, but
//that teacher wisnae// |
| F638 |
//I don't know why.// |
| F637 |
good tae ye, she wisnae good tae ye, was she? |
| F638 |
Who? |
| F637 |
That f- teacher ye had in the junior school. |
| F638 |
Miss [CENSORED: surname]? |
| F637 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
She petrified me.
//She used to// |
| F637 |
//I know!// |
| F638 |
poke me with, well no me, but she poked the boys with the poke- eh her big
//pointer// |
| F637 |
//Aye, but they used//
//tae leather me for being left-// |
| F638 |
//in the stomach.// |
| F637 |
handit, and made me sit on my hand and hut me with a ruler and, made, ye know,
//to make// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F637 |
me write wi my right hand. And then I got intae trouble for writin below the lines. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
And, they didnae realise I couldnae see the lines until up, they tested your eyes then at seven, |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
when ye were supposed to be able tae read. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
Because, before that ye couldnae read the s- ye know,
//ABCs// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F637 |
tae get your eyes tested. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And then I wore glasses fae then. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
But I was always gettin leathered for writing below
//the lines an.// |
| F638 |
//They wouldnae let ye write//
wi your left hand at school. |
| F637 |
//No, no.// |
| M608 |
//oh aye.// |
| F637 |
//No.// |
| F638 |
//They would//
not allow it. |
| M608 |
hmm |
| F637 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//If ye were left-//
han-. I mean it's so stupid, when ye think aboot
//it now.// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
For i-, see when I was eh makin the teachers' tea. I mean, it's amazin the teachers that were left-handed. |
| M608 |
Aye. Aye. |
| F638 |
But, I mean, the ja- I mean, it's silly, isn't it,
//when ye think// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
aboot it noo, they wouldnae allow ye tae write wi yer left ha-, if ye were left-handed. |
| M608 |
What was the difference between the the big school and the junior school? I mean what kinda? |
| F638 |
Well then it was like eh movin now. Ye had a different teacher for each subject, whereas ye had the same teacher for the the whole year. |
| M608 |
Aye, right. |
| F637 |
//Ye know, for the first// |
| F638 |
//That eh.// |
| F637 |
two years ye went tae school ye had the same teacher. I'd a Miss Arbuckle.
And eh, I remember she got ma-, she, we got word she was gettin married.
And I thought, "How's it, what's an old woman like her gettin married for?" But she must have been maybe oh twenty-three or twenty-four. |
| M608 |
[laugh] |
| F637 |
But to me, at between five and seven, she was an old woman, ye know.
And eh, then ye went up to the big school, and ye started getting different teachers for arithmetic and eh different things like that.
And I remember I was off a year, off the school a full year wi |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
bein in hospital; I had scarlet fever and one thing and another.
And eh, I was five months in the hospital wi scarlet fever. |
| M608 |
uh-huh? |
| F637 |
And then I was o-, then I sprained ma ankle, and then I took somethin else, an I was off a full year.
And eh, I went up back to the school and the the headmaster said, "Och, we'll just put her in her own class, she'll no be long. She'll catch up." |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And I got this eh teach-, Miss [CENSORED: surname]. And the first day there, spellin was never ma strong point, and she gave me the belt, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
right up tae there for havin four le-, four eh spellins wrong.
And ma mother went up, and gave her oh what for, ye know? |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
I got the belt every day that I was in her class.
//Every day.// |
| F638 |
//Whether ye needed it or not!//
[laugh] |
| F637 |
She took took it out on me that woman. |
| F640 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
Aye, and then ye got another teacher for, ye then ye went tae cookery. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
Now they had a cookery,
//when ye went tae cookery,// |
| F638 |
//Ye'd tae go tae Ayr Academy//
[inaudible]
//cookery.// |
| F637 |
//No.//
No, you went,
//we had, we// |
| F638 |
//I did!// |
| F637 |
had a cookery cla-, a cookery bit under the clinic,
remember? |
| F638 |
oh right, we went for laundry
//to that Ayr Academy.// |
| F637 |
//We went f-, you went//
to the Aca-, first time ye went for laundry, ye
//went tae Catholic school.// |
| M608 |
//There was a class for laundry?// |
| F637 |
//uh-huh// |
| F638 |
//Ye had a class in//
loi- laundry and ye had
//to take// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
articles fae the house and
//ye washed them.// |
| F637 |
//A hanky!// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible] hanky was the first// |
| F638 |
//A lady's and a gent's hanky.// |
| F640 |
thing. |
| F638 |
Yes. |
| F637 |
A lady's and a gent's hanky, and that was a whole lesson. And ye had the boiling, the
//bleaching and the blueing!// |
| F638 |
//The blueing, the blueing,//
and the bleaching! |
| F640 |
//mmhm// |
| F637 |
//So ye//
had tae dae this
//wi these two// |
| F638 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//hankies.// |
| M608 |
//You you were taught well!// |
| F638 |
[laugh]
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//Was it a//
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//And then they//
went up on the pulley. |
| F640 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
In the the class room, they'd
//all these// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F637 |
pulleys, you know, for dryin the
//clothes.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]//
[inaudible] |
| F637 |
So, it lay up there for a week. |
| F638 |
Yeah, and you
//ironed it! [laugh]// |
| F637 |
//And you would, the next week, ye were taught how tae iron//
it and fold it. |
| F640 |
Wi a great big heavy
//iron.// |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| F638 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
mmhm, the big
//ones that// |
| F638 |
//Aye.// |
| F637 |
heated on a hob, ye know a flat iron? |
| M608 |
How many people were there in a class ironing? |
| F637 |
oh aboot, maybe aboot twenty odds. |
| F640 |
oh aye, your whole
//[inaudible] class.// |
| F637 |
//Aye, uh-huh.// |
| M608 |
[inaudible] |
| F637 |
And then ye went
//for cookery,// |
| F638 |
//Ye went,//
//and then ye went for sewin.// |
| F637 |
//and ye worked in pairs.//
And ye went for sewin,
but ye got that in your own school, but for cookery, th- we had a cookery room,
and eh they had tiny wee pots. But ye worked in pairs. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And my name was Hillen and the one I had tae work wi was Lizzie Hill,
and ye could have stuck her tae the wall; she was clarty.
And eh, I wouldnae let her touch anything |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
that we were makin, because if she'd touched it I couldnae
//eat it!// |
| F638 |
//I never//
mind o cookin in twos! |
| F637 |
Aye ye'd tae cook
//in// |
| F638 |
//No.// |
| F637 |
Aye ye worked
//with pairs.// |
| F638 |
//Cause I made lovely//
spongy scones.
//I was the top in the class.// |
| F637 |
//oh aye, [laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
"Mary Hillen? She makes lovely spongy
//scones!"// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
And I was
//the only one in the class// |
| F637 |
//But eh// |
| F638 |
at the exam, when she said, asked the question, "What is the staff of life?" Bread! |
| M608 |
[laugh] |
| F637 |
That's cause we went to Sunday
//school.// |
| F638 |
//That's because//
my mother taught us that, "Eat that up, that's the staff of
//life!" [laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[snort] [laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
And I made the best scones in the class. |
| M608 |
oh right? |
| F637 |
Aye,
//so ye// |
| F638 |
//Yes.// |
| F637 |
made thing-, you know, ye made
//soup wi margarine.// |
| F640 |
//Ye were taught tae bath a baby.// |
| F638 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
Aye, an ye got aw these
//things, and.// |
| F638 |
//But when ye//
coo- when ye made somethin special, like ye made soup, or ehm,
apple tart or something, ye thought, "I'll take that home and show my mother it." And ye'd go, ye started
//walkin the mile home, and ye had a wee bit tae taste it.// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
And then ye took another wee bit tae taste, so when ye got home, ye'd maybe crumbs left.
Ye never let them see it, remember that?
Ye used tae eat it
//on the [laugh] the road home.// |
| F637 |
//Aye. [laugh]// |
| F638 |
But I mean, ye got
//got them// |
| M608 |
//Did you supply//
the ingredients or were
//they in the school?// |
| F638 |
//No, the school did.// |
| F637 |
//The school did,// |
| M608 |
//Right.// |
| F637 |
//but ye paid.// |
| F638 |
//Nowadays//
they have tae supply their own
//ingredients.// |
| F637 |
//Ye know, say ye,//
you were makin an apple tart, well ye took an apple. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And ye paid maybe thruppence or something. |
| M608 |
Thruppence? |
| F637 |
And that was for towards the other ingredients, ye know, or a penny or what,
//tuppence,whatever it was.// |
| F638 |
//But nowadays, they take//
//the ingredients// |
| F640 |
//But//
//the best bit was// |
| F638 |
//themselves.// |
| F640 |
//if ye were// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F640 |
sent tae clean out the the the cupboard that
//kept all the// |
| F637 |
//oh aye.// |
| F640 |
currents and raisins in it. |
| F637 |
oh aye,
//ye could eat em// |
| F638 |
//You see, I//
I I never had that problem. |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//And ye could eat them. [laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
But it was it was good really. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
I feel that we were taught better, |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
ye know, like eh arithmetic, |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
like mental arithmetic. Ye got
//that// |
| M608 |
//Yeah.// |
| F637 |
every single day, ye got mental arithmetic. And she would go roon the class, ye know,
//and just// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
pick on
//somebody.// |
| F638 |
//So did I,//
//Eleanor.// |
| F637 |
//And eh,//
//ye got mental// |
| F640 |
//Mental block.// |
| F637 |
arithmetic, ye g- and yer spellin and everythin. And yer grammar, I think, was taught a lot better then. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And it was hammered intae ye, John, really hammered intae ye.
And ye never f-, even yet, I mean, I hear men on the television, announcers and broadcastin and that, and they'll say, "sawr", |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
instead o
//"saw".// |
| M608 |
//Aye, aye.// |
| F637 |
Ye know? And that grates on me,
//because that wisnae the way// |
| F638 |
//But that's dialect isn't it?// |
| F637 |
we were taught. |
| F638 |
That's dialect.
//[?]though[/?].// |
| F637 |
//No, but,//
I mean, they add an an ER ontae "saw", |
| M608 |
Yeah. |
| F637 |
ye know? But then again, John used tae, he had a different way o speakin fae I had. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And, some things he used tae say, ye know, and I would say, "You have seen." You know, ye didnae "sawr". |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
He'd say, "I sawr so-and-so." And I'd say, "No. You have seen". |
| F638 |
[cough] |
| F637 |
Ye know? And eh, these wee things aw stuck in yer mind. |
| M608 |
uh-huh? |
| F637 |
But eh, nooadays, ye go intae a shop, nooadays, |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
ye buy two items, and they cannae add it up. |
| M608 |
mmhm, they need a calculator [?]some of them[/?]. |
| F637 |
They need a calculator
//or they've got tae add it up on the till!// |
| F638 |
//It's just, but it's just movin with//
the times,
//John,// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F638 |
that's all it is. I mean, it's no that |
| F640 |
But there'd be
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//But, ye see, we'd tae add up in wur head we-we-//
we were taught that way. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
an an it was a lot quicker, and better, I felt anyway. |
| M608 |
So did you, did you go from school straight into work? |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//Yes.//
I left the school in June,
and I was wasn't fourteen till the twentieth of August, and I was working before my birthday. |
| F640 |
You didnae get a ve- any holiday before
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//oh no, ye never//
//got a holiday.// |
| F638 |
//I was//
workin before my fourteenth birthday in A L Scott's, the shoe
//shop, in Ayr// |
| F640 |
//I was workin when I was fifteen.// |
| F638 |
//and I'd// |
| M608 |
//uh-huh// |
| F638 |
already done two year in eh the dairy before that. |
| M608 |
Was that working part-time? |
| F638 |
I delivered milk in the mornin, and then I served in the dairy shop at night when I came out the school. |
| F640 |
//Tell him what// |
| M608 |
//So.// |
| F640 |
ye did in the mornin. |
| F638 |
And eh I went oot with the horse and cart and delivered milk. |
| M608 |
oh, right!
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//And it wasnae milk//
bottles.
It was
//the the. It wisnae cartons, or milk bottles! No!// |
| F637 |
//It wisnae cartons, it was milk bottles, oh, it was the cans, cans then.// |
| F638 |
It wasn't, it was the b-, they used tae give ye their jug
//and ye'd the// |
| F637 |
//mmhm.// |
| F638 |
big ten-gallon milk-cans and ye'd a scoop, pint ha- and two pint and a half pint. And ye filled their jug in the mornin. |
| F640 |
Before she went to school. |
| F638 |
Before I went to school! |
| M608 |
What time would that be? |
| F638 |
I used tae start at six in the mornin. |
| M608 |
uh-huh? |
| F638 |
And I'd come home, and at the weekend we, I worked, either washin bo- eh they had bottles
//in the// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F638 |
dairy, wa- washin the bottles, which was in great big big tubs, wi two eh revolvin brushes, and a brush in the centre. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
And ye held the two milk bottles on it, |
| M608 |
mm |
| F638 |
and they revolved.
They were dipped and then put into the cases, |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
taken through to the creamery. Ye threw ten-gallon cans of milk intae the machine and then ye filled all the bottles and stoppered them for deliverin the next day in the cooled room. |
| F637 |
//They were stoppered wi// |
| M608 |
//[inaudible] did you do this physically?// |
| F637 |
mmhm! |
| F638 |
Physically! |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| M608 |
//uh-huh// |
| F638 |
And then I scrubbed the the dairy floor, |
| M608 |
uh-huh? |
| F638 |
the shop part, and that was me finished,
and I think I got two pound a week
//for that.// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| M608 |
Then, how did you find the job in the shoe shop? |
| F638 |
It wisnae a case of it. I mean, you only went to the labour-exchange, it was called then. And then, of course, there was the job there and I hated the shoe shop. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F638 |
And I went fae there tae work in a hosiery. |
| F640 |
Mother told you where ye should go. |
| F638 |
Aye, know, an yer parents said, "oh that. I think
//that's." And I went// |
| F637 |
//Aye, mm.// |
| F638 |
from there, and I worked in a hosiery |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
And eh, then I, my
//health got so bad.// |
| F637 |
//Tell him what ye had for yer piece.//
Aye, because of yer carried
//piece.// |
| F638 |
//My//
my health got so bad, that I went back to the labour-exchange, and I went tae be a spinner |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
in the carpet factory, Grace carpet factory. And the Mr eh Logan, remember him? |
| F640 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
He interviewed me and he said I'd good appearance. He thought I should go intae the office.
And I was in the office till, for over thirteen year. In the sales department. |
| M608 |
oh, right,
//what kind of things did// |
| F638 |
//We sta-// |
| M608 |
you do there? |
| F638 |
Sorry? |
| M608 |
What kind of things did you do in the office? |
| F638 |
oh ye did all the orderin, and the sendin out all the carpets, and ye booked in everythin that was made in the factory intae big ledgers. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
And then, ye had yer ehm ye'd tae write out eh, customers' orders. And it was long-hand. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F638 |
It wasn't the, there wasn't any machines or anything, it was all done in long-
//hand.// |
| M608 |
//Yeah.// |
| F638 |
And it's, ye used tae get different coloured papers up from the factory; they came up from the factory tae tell ye what had been produced, and ye entered these intae ledgers.
And then ye knew what yer stock was. And that's. |
| M608 |
[inaudible] |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//uh-huh// |
| M608 |
Where did where did you work in?
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//Well, when I left//
when I left the school,
//I started in// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
Kate Fisher's. I wanted to stay on and take my lower leaving-certificate,
//but that// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F637 |
meant I'd tae stay on to, at school till I was fifteen.
So my mother needed the money; I had tae leave the school. And I left tae go and work for a pound a week. |
| M608 |
Right. |
| F640 |
//In a shop.// |
| F637 |
//And,//
//in a shop, and I was supposed// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
to be learnin window dressin. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
But the woman that was teachin me left to open another shop,
after nine months.
And she wanted me tae go wi her, ye know,
//to work.// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F637 |
And I would've been better, John, if I had gone, but, at that time, ye were influenced by the rest of the folk, ye know.
And I stayed on there, and then I went and took short-hand and typin. |
| F640 |
She was just a shop-assistant. |
| F637 |
Aye.
//And I was the youngest,// |
| F638 |
//Which I wasn't allowed to go for,//
because my mother couldn't afford tae send
//the both of us.// |
| F637 |
//It was eight shillings a//
//week,// |
| M608 |
//oh, right.// |
| F637 |
for my short-hand and typin lessons. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And then I left there and, when I was sixteen, and I went tae work in Gray's office in the s- in the wages office. |
| F638 |
//No, the stamp work!// |
| M608 |
//Cause I was thinking [inaudible].// |
| F640 |
The stamp-work? |
| F637 |
The stamp-work, sorry,
//I went to work in the// |
| F638 |
//It wasn't Gray's.// |
| F637 |
stamp-work
//office, sorry.// |
| M608 |
//mmhm, mmhm// |
| F637 |
eh in the wages office and learnt the comput- eh,
//comptometer.// |
| M608 |
//Comptometer.// |
| F637 |
Ye worked a comptometer there. Makin oot the wages.
And then I was transferred from the wages office down to the ehm plannin office. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And the plannin office, aw the steel that come in, it was just more or less the same as Mary.
Everythin that came in and was made and went out, went through this plannin office and we'd huge big boards on the wall, and every hammer had a number
in the stamp works had a number. And, ye got aw the steel come in, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
and my job was to was to work out how many forgins ye would get oot this amount of steel.
And ye used a um |
| F638 |
Slide rule. |
| F637 |
slide rule
//tae// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F637 |
work that oot. And ye put that aw in tae this these ledgers again, |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
and the steel had tae go and get passed at the the lab. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And then you put it up on the board. And as the the forgins, you're gettin notes of how many forgins had been made. |
| M608 |
Yeah. |
| F637 |
And you moved along and ev-, ye knew what every hammer had tae do. |
| F640 |
Like a production
//line.// |
| F637 |
//But,//
I wasnae gettin short-hand and typin there.
And I felt it was wasted. So I went fae there tae work in ehm Grant's office - the furniture store - |
| M608 |
oh, right. |
| F637 |
where I got short-hand and typin, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
and it was, I was still there when I got married, at nineteen. |
| M608 |
mmhm
So when you were working, were you working five days a week, was it? |
| F637 |
//But// |
| F638 |
//No!//
[inaudible]
//You might have// |
| F637 |
//you worked [inaudible]// |
| F638 |
been in the factory, but ye worked eh |
| F637 |
No, in a shop ye got a half day off on a
//Wednesday.// |
| F638 |
//On a Wednesday,//
and ye worked right through tae Saturday night. |
| F637 |
uh-huh, and ye'd a Sunday off. |
| F638 |
Ye'd a Sunday that was aw. |
| F637 |
uh-huh |
| M608 |
oh right. |
| F637 |
But in the f- when I worked in the
//stampin works// |
| F638 |
//And it was,// |
| F637 |
ye worked Monday to Friday. |
| F638 |
And it was, when I started in Gray's, John, |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F638 |
I started, for aw it was in an office, I started at twenty-five past seven in the morning,
till twenty-five to six at night.
That was my office-hours, because, remember the horn used to
//blow at twenty-five past seven in the mornin?// |
| F640 |
//That's right, because the ten, the ten// |
| M608 |
//That's right.// |
| F640 |
minutes, ye didn't start at half seven, because in startin at twenty-five past and finishin at twenty-five to, made up your ten minutes break.
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//Break,//
//durin// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//the day.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F640 |
//Ye had a ten-minute// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F640 |
but ye work, ye startit five minutes early and finished five
//minutes late.// |
| F638 |
//But, I mean, that was//
long, long hours
//for an office.// |
| F640 |
//mmhm,//
mmhm |
| F638 |
And when ye worked in the shop, ye were there from nine in the mornin tae six at night. |
| M608 |
mm, what did ye do in the evenings? Did you have |
| F637 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//Well,//
depending how much money ye had, ye got two and six pocket-money a week, John. |
| F637 |
You were lucky, I got a shillin. |
| F638 |
oh phhh, but you're ancient!
//eh I// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
ye got two and
//sixpence, a week,// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
pocket-money,
but ye'd tae buy yer own eh, well it wisnae tights, stockings off o that,
toothpaste, things like that.
You maybe got a night at the pictures, or the dancin, |
| F637 |
Aye if ye if ye broke intae yer brother's wee mud hut
//for the [laugh]// |
| F638 |
//and, if// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
[laugh] |
| F638 |
I used to do a bit o borrowing,
//and pay back.// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
But that was for, that was oot
//fur the the missionaries,// |
| F638 |
//But ehm,// |
| F637 |
and she she
//took the bottom off it and took the money oot.// |
| F638 |
//the thing is though//
eh, I mean, that had that had tae last ye a week, John! |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
That that had tae last ye a full week! |
| M608 |
Yeah. |
| F640 |
Well ye didnae go out, ye only went tae the pictures.
//We sat in and// |
| F638 |
//Ye only went tae the pictures,// |
| F640 |
knitted and listened tae the
//radio.// |
| F638 |
//an//
//listened to the// |
| F637 |
//Aye, or went a walk.// |
| F638 |
the wireless. |
| F637 |
Quite often ye'd things tae dae in the hoose when ye came in. Ye know my mother
//would've// |
| F638 |
//An I mean//
and ye'd yer housework tae do. |
| F637 |
oh, aye. |
| F638 |
Aye, ye'd yer housework tae do. |
| M608 |
What did you do on a
//Sunday?// |
| F637 |
//Maybe//
ironing an that. |
| F638 |
On a Sunday ye
//ye went dressed// |
| F637 |
//Ye went a walk.// |
| F638 |
up and if it was a nice day ye walked along the shore at Ayr. |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| M608 |
//[?]And at night?[/?]//
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//And at night.// |
| F640 |
With yer hat
//on.// |
| F637 |
//But// |
| F638 |
Cover him up, John. [indicating budgie]
And at night, ye'd yer hat on. |
| F637 |
In there, in the cupboard. [pointing] |
| F638 |
There's a cover in here.
And it eh, and then at night ye went and ye walked down the High
//Street.// |
| F637 |
//That's it.// |
| F638 |
Ye walked
//down.// |
| F637 |
//No, that//
was a no-
//no.// |
| F640 |
//Aye,// |
| F638 |
//up and//
//down. That's it.// |
| F640 |
//that's it, that's it.// |
| F637 |
//That was a no-no.// |
| F638 |
//Up and down//
the High Street and ye went and had a coffee, and that was Sunday. Ye'd tae be home by nine o'clock. |
| F640 |
Because ye'd yer work the next day. |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//Yes.//
Ye had tae be home by nine o'clock on a Sunday, and that's how ye spent a Sunday. |
| F637 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
In the winter-time, |
| F637 |
Ye might get a click, ye don't
//know.// |
| F638 |
//in the winter-time,//
ye maybe never went oot, if it's a miserable day, ye never went oot tae maybe night-time,
//had a walk// |
| M608 |
//uh-huh// |
| F638 |
along the High Street and went tae Green's picture house up there, remember the cafe? |
| F640 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
Up there, and ye had a coffee, and that was it. Exciting! |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
eh?
Living on the edge!
//[cough]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
You went tae Green's? |
| F638 |
I went tae Green's. |
| F640 |
Everybody was the same. |
| F638 |
Aye, we went tae
//Green's.// |
| F637 |
//That's aw that//
that went there. |
| F640 |
[laugh]
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//It was nothing of the// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//It was// |
| F638 |
//kind!// |
| F637 |
so! |
| F640 |
//oh no, it was// |
| F638 |
//That.// |
| F640 |
//quite posh.// |
| F637 |
//When I was young.// |
| F638 |
oh it was, aye, it was posh. But eh, that was it John, that was,
//and, I mean ye were workin// |
| F637 |
//oh aye ye// |
| F638 |
all these days.
//things.// |
| F637 |
//But, John//
see nooadays i- the kids don't go oot to play. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
the way we went oot to play.
And every season had a different thing. |
| M608 |
oh aye. |
| F637 |
Ye know?
//Like// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F637 |
you you
played
skippin-ropes at the same time every year. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And ye played 'peevers': |
| M608 |
True. |
| F637 |
'hopscotch' they caw it noo, but we cawed it 'peevers'. And |
| M608 |
Was that with a pebble? |
| F637 |
//No.// |
| F638 |
//No, ye'd a//
piece o marble, roon
//marble, John.// |
| F637 |
//Ye used tae used//
tae go to the who, the man that made the headstones for the cemetery, and he had wee off-cuts, and he used to make
//peevers; a piece o wee round bit o marble.// |
| F638 |
//Peevers, wee round circles o marble.// |
| M608 |
Right. |
| F637 |
And ye threw it, ye know, ye drew what we cawed 'beds' was,
//ye know, on the// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
the pavement. |
| F640 |
//Wi chalk.// |
| M608 |
//Yeah.// |
| F637 |
Wi chalk, and we used tae get a bu- a block o pipe-clay, |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
er that the women put on their steps |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
tae whiten them. And ye drew yer beds, and then ye played eh
//wi wi yer peevers.// |
| F638 |
//And div-// |
| F637 |
And if ye didnae have enough money to go and buy that, ye got an auld shoe-polish tin and filled it full o dirt |
| F640 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
tae weigh it doon, and ye used that. |
| F638 |
But then beds werenae like they play hopscotch now.
//We drew// |
| F637 |
//No.// |
| F638 |
six
//like that.// |
| F637 |
//uh-huh// |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
And it was numbered one tae six,
//and that's how// |
| F637 |
//You know.// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
we played.
//We don't, we didna// |
| F637 |
//And ye hopped. And ye had// |
| F638 |
play wi that
//hoppin an// |
| M608 |
//Yeah.// |
| F638 |
then jumpin the,
//no.// |
| F640 |
//Ye//
decorated it. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| F638 |
//[cough]//
//And then we played marbles.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible] We decorated//
//the beds.// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//Ye//
played marbles, |
| F637 |
Bools. |
| F638 |
eh and then ye played ehm ball,
against the wall.
//Sometimes// |
| M608 |
//oh right.// |
| F638 |
wi two. |
| F640 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
//Sometimes wi a a// |
| F638 |
//Sometimes wi one.// |
| F637 |
elastic through it, ye know?
//An// |
| F640 |
//But// |
| F638 |
//An// |
| F640 |
what were the fast eh skippin-ropes? |
| F638 |
The fast
//[inaudible]// |
| F640 |
//Tenners.// |
| F637 |
//Tenners aye.// |
| F638 |
//oh, uh-huh// |
| F637 |
uh-huh |
| F638 |
Where ye p-.
//And sometimes ye played// |
| F637 |
//mmhm. Ye cawed hard.// |
| F638 |
wi double skippin-
//ropes.// |
| F640 |
//uh-huh// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//Ye could but//
ye
//played wi two.// |
| F640 |
//Ye ye jumped between//
the ropes,
//cause, cause.// |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F638 |
And only when ye stopped the rope, you had tae start and caw the
//rope.// |
| F640 |
//Can you remember any//
o the rhymes ye sang
//for the ropes?// |
| F638 |
//eh// |
| F637 |
Aye,
//ehm// |
| F638 |
//[exhale]// |
| F640 |
A house to let? |
| F637 |
//A fire within// |
| F638 |
//A house to//
//eh, -ply -ply within// |
| F640 |
//A house to let, apply within.// |
| F637 |
//within.//
//A lady put out, drinking gin,// |
| F638 |
//An, lady was caught for drinking gin.//
//Drinking gin is a very bad thing.// |
| F637 |
//-king gin is a very bad thing,//
//So, out goes Mary and Margaret comes in!// |
| F638 |
//out goes Mary and Margaret comes in!// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//And then eh what was the other ehm,// |
| F638 |
//[laugh]//
In and out goes
//dusty bluebells.// |
| F637 |
//Dusty bluebells.//
//Aye, uh-huh// |
| F638 |
//Was that another one?// |
| F637 |
"In and out goes dusty bluebells", and there was, but there was other ah they had quite a few others. |
| F640 |
Do ye remember the ball one?
//When you're playing ball.// |
| F637 |
//One, two, three a'leery!// |
| F638 |
//A'leery!//
//Four, five,// |
| F640 |
//I spied//
//Wallace Beery sittin on his bumbaleery, eatin jelly babies!// |
| F637 |
//Wallace Beery sittin on his bumbaleery, eatin [laugh] babies!// |
| F638 |
//Wallace Beery sittin on his bumbaleery, eatin jelly babies!//
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//Or "kissin Shirley Temple" we used tae sing.// |
| F638 |
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//eh// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//and// |
| F638 |
//No we said, "eatin//
jelly babies." |
| F640 |
//oh another// |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| F640 |
skippin was, "There she goes,
//an there she goes,// |
| F637 |
//"there she goes,// |
| F638 |
//"there she goes,//
//peerie heels and pointit toes.// |
| F640 |
//peerie heels and pointit toes.// |
| F637 |
//peerie heels and pointit toes.//
//Look at her feet, look she's neat; black stockins and dirty feet!"// |
| F640 |
//Look at her feet, she thinks she's neat; black stockins and dirty feet!"// |
| F638 |
//Look at her feet, she thinks she's neat; black stockins and dirty feet!"//
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
oh it was r- it was good.
//But,// |
| M608 |
//Yeah.// |
| F637 |
an then, at night, the light nights
//ye know,// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//in the summer-time, eh we used tae//
play kick the can. eh |
| M608 |
[inaudible] |
| F637 |
//an aleevo// |
| F638 |
//Well I played r-.//
No, I played
//rounders.// |
| F637 |
//and eh//
ye played rounders, kick the can, eh, aleevo, well, |
| M608 |
What's aleevo? |
| F637 |
aleevo was, there was a a crowd, ye know, ye had two teams, and one team, the other team went in, like, a den, ye know, they drew a den, |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
and somebody fae the other team had tae run through and shout 'aleevo', and everybody ran out,
and, the other team, it's their turn tae go in, and and eh they would run, some o, some o theirs would run through.
//An then.// |
| F638 |
//I've never played that.// |
| F637 |
Aye, and then we played statues, and that was,
//there would be a line o people,// |
| M608 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
right? |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
An, one bodie would stand wi their back tae the ri- tae the line. And the the s- they would start walking towards them. |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F637 |
And, when they turned round quick, eh, ye'd tae stop, but if ye were caught,
//movin// |
| F640 |
//Movin, uh-huh// |
| F637 |
ye were out, ye know.
And eh, that was statues. And then we used tae play eh [tut]. What else did we play?
Kick the can,
//aleevo// |
| F638 |
//No, I never//
played kick the can, never!
//Och// |
| F637 |
//Och,//
//aye!// |
| F638 |
//Or aleevo!//
//Never even// |
| F637 |
//uh-huh?// |
| F638 |
heard of it! |
| F637 |
oh aye, we
//played aw these things.// |
| F638 |
//Played rounders,//
and sk- roller-skatin, |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F638 |
and eh on a, I learned tae ride a bicycle on Robin Hutchison's fairy-cycle. |
| M608 |
[laugh]
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//And my knees, and I was away doon McLean Street and up Market Street like the clappers! Wi this wee fairy-cycle bicycle.//
And then I got my own bicycle, which
//cost// |
| M608 |
//uh-huh// |
| F638 |
me, and I saved up my pocket money, four pounds. |
| M608 |
Good grief. That's a
//[?]lot of money[/?].// |
| F638 |
//It was an ex-//
A-T-S bike, and it was a fantastic bike. |
| F637 |
Ye know the
//kind [inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//It was like the//
old-fashioned nurses' bikes, now ye know the |
| M608 |
oh aye. |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//that that went//
//round like that?// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]//
mmhm |
| F638 |
And it was a great bicycle and I used it for years.
And I used tae cycle f-, remember I went fae Ayr wi the swimming club and I went away doon tae the Croy shore, we cycled tae the Croy shore and back.
But it was a great bi-, and it didnae have any
//gears on it.// |
| M608 |
//No gears!//
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//No.// |
| F638 |
//It didnae have//
gears. [laugh] It was a, and then I I went a step up and bought myself a new green Raleigh bicycle. That was class. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
That was class! |
| F637 |
But I went away wi that bike of yours without the
//gears,// |
| F638 |
//And broke//
it! |
| F637 |
//and went, cycled tae Kilwinning!// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
And never told me, John. I was goin down a
//hill.// |
| F637 |
//Cycled tae//
//Kilwinning, John.// |
| F638 |
//I went down//
a hill, and she'd broken it, and the front wheel snapped, and I'd tae go tae my work on the bar,
//o eh.// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
What did ye call them that used tae live next door tae us?
//Her that had the bendy// |
| F640 |
//Wilson?// |
| F638 |
bottle at New Year. The bendy |
| F640 |
Wilson? |
| F638 |
W- was it |
| F637 |
uh-huh |
| F638 |
was it Wilson or Gibson? |
| F640 |
Cairns? |
| F638 |
Cairns!
An his father had, I'd tae dump it in at somebody's house, and he took me tae Gray's on the bar o his bicycle that morning, so as I'd be in time for my work. |
| F640 |
Aye, cause ye were quartered.
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
//I know!// |
| F640 |
if you were late. |
| F638 |
They took fifteen minutes off yer pay. |
| F637 |
mm |
| F640 |
If ye w- if, the door shut when the horn went, ye see,
//after the horn went// |
| F638 |
//mmhm// |
| F640 |
ye were quartered. |
| F637 |
//But// |
| F638 |
//And see in//
that first job I had, John, at A L Scott's? |
| M608 |
uh-huh |
| F638 |
My pay was seventeen and six a week. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
And thruppence off that went tae yer
//stamp.// |
| F637 |
//Stamp,//
mmhm |
| F638 |
So ye came out wi seventeen and thruppence for workin all those hours, eh? |
| M608 |
mm |
| F640 |
Eighty-five p. |
| F637 |
Aye. |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//uh-huh// |
| F640 |
when you think of it. |
| F638 |
Is that how much it is now,
//eighty-five// |
| F640 |
//mm// |
| M608 |
//Mm//
//mm,// |
| F640 |
//Well it's seventeen// |
| F638 |
//p?//
//[cough]// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F638 |
mmhm
//[?]Right[/?].// |
| F637 |
//Aye, and ye were the//
dog's-body. |
| F640 |
Aye seven-
//aye, eighty-five p.// |
| F638 |
//uh-huh I used// |
| M608 |
//mm, yeah.// |
| F638 |
tae have tae k- s- go down on my hands and knees and scrub that shop
//floor.// |
| F637 |
//So//
did I,
//in Kate Fisher's.// |
| F638 |
//And I washed that sh-,//
these sh-, eh, double shop windows every morning, and cleaned all round about where it was sort o like marbly stuff,
//underneath the// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F638 |
window. That had tae be washed every day,
//hail, rain or// |
| F637 |
//That's right, I did the same.// |
| F638 |
snow. |
| F637 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
And then ye scrubbed inside the shop floor, or doon on your hands and
//knees.// |
| F637 |
//Doon on yer hands//
//and knee.// |
| F640 |
//And ye had tae wear//
a black dress. |
| F638 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
Imagine. |
| F638 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
Down on yer hands and knees scrubbin
//a great big shop!// |
| F640 |
//What did ye get for yer//
piece? |
| F638 |
eh
//oh.// |
| F640 |
//So ye never//
went home for lunch? |
| F637 |
//Aye!// |
| F638 |
//I used to go//
home when I worked, but when
I worked
in the hosiery, I had a small case, |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
and I took eight slice o plain bread |
| F640 |
[laugh] eight slice! |
| F638 |
with could o been cheese, or cold-meat.
//And then// |
| F637 |
//Tomat-// |
| F638 |
I would have maybe a couple of biscuits, then
//the baker came// |
| F637 |
//A round scone.//
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//the baker came//
//to the// |
| M608 |
//Right.// |
| F638 |
hosiery.
//I would maybe buy// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
a pie, and maybe a round scone and a cake. And that's all I had to feed me all
//day, John!// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]//
//So she// |
| F638 |
//So she'd//
But I'd this wee case that, for my sandwiches, for
//my piece,// |
| M608 |
//hm// |
| F638 |
in this tiny wee case and eh that chap used tae say,"When she jumps on the bus wi that case [laugh] the front wheels go up in the air!"
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
That's when ye said tae my mother that ye'd have tae leave that job, because the carried-pieces werenae agreein
//wi ye.// |
| F638 |
//I know,//
I wasnae, I wasnae well enough, that's what was wrong. But em, as I say, when |
| F637 |
But when ye think aboot it, John, it was a hard life then. |
| M608 |
mm
//yeah.// |
| F637 |
//I mean,//
even for my mother, |
| M608 |
mm, oh aye. |
| F637 |
because, I mean, they didnae have a lot o money and they cou-, they didnae have fridges, and they couldnae go and buy their food fae one week tae the next. They'd tae buy fresh every day |
| F638 |
But look how
//many o our young life// |
| F637 |
//and cook it.// |
| F638 |
was durin the War. I mean, the War started when I was seven. |
| F637 |
mmhm, well, that's right, I
//was eight, but// |
| F638 |
//And it went right//
through
//until.// |
| F637 |
//Till we were aboot//
fifteen. I was aboot fifteen, I think. |
| F638 |
eh, how long did the War last, six years? |
| F637 |
//mmhm// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F638 |
Well, I would be, you'd be fourteen, I'd be
//thirteen.// |
| F637 |
//mm// |
| F638 |
And I mean, you
//must remember, John. We never// |
| F637 |
//But we never starved durin the War. We didna starve.// |
| F638 |
had seen a banana. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F638 |
And we could not
//hardly// |
| F637 |
//I had.// |
| F638 |
remember what a banana, well, we knew what it looked like, but we we didn't know what it tasted like. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F638 |
And I remember eh my mother, she heard they were sellin red apples, you were only allowed so many each, and it was a fruit shop on the Main Street, McCulloch's, I think it's still there, to this day.,
[cough] and she went, and she stood for an hour and a half, and she got four red apples, Canadian red apples, and she brought them tae the school tae us,
and we didn't know whether tae eat them, or just keep them. I mean we hadnae even seen a red apple. |
| M608 |
Yeah. |
| F638 |
And I always remember her bringin them tae the playgroond, when we're oot at play-time, that's, and she'd stood in a queue all that time |
| F637 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
tae get us an apple. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
And then, of course, yer sweets were rationed! |
| M608 |
mm |
| F638 |
Ye only got, eh, |
| F637 |
An clothin coupons. |
| F638 |
ah, but that wasnae
//so bad s-, I mean necessities for// |
| F637 |
//Bread coupons! You got.// |
| F638 |
for us, we as kids,
//sweets!// |
| F637 |
//Was sweeties.//
//But ye got ye got coupons for bread, as well, and butcher// |
| M608 |
//[laugh] Aye.// |
| F637 |
meat.
//mm// |
| F640 |
//mm// |
| F638 |
But eh, |
| M608 |
That lasted quite a long while after the War,
//didn't it? mm// |
| F637 |
//mmhm, it did//
it did
//John.// |
| F638 |
//oh the//
rationin lasted what was it, not aboot three or four year, after the
//War, before.// |
| F637 |
//B-Us that's//
//what they were cawed; the the the the coupons were// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//cawed [?]that[/?].// |
| F638 |
//The rabbit,// |
| F637 |
B-Us,
//for bread.// |
| F638 |
//oot the butchers!// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//B B-Us// |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F640 |
for a rabbit for three shillings. |
| F637 |
//mmhm. But I used// |
| F638 |
//Aye, I mean, it's// |
| F637 |
tae get up in the mornin before I went tae school, and I used tae - ye ye couldnae get on the bus, because it was workers only. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
And I used tae walk fae Mackie Street, tae the
//Main Street,// |
| F638 |
//[cough]//
[sniff] |
| F637 |
tae the butcher's. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
And come back up Russell Street, and go intae Barr's the eh, the baker's, and get rolls, and walk home, tae Mackie Street,
have my breakfast, and then have tae walk back tae Russell Street tae the
//the school.// |
| F638 |
//I think//
you're makin
//a mistake there, Margaret,// |
| F637 |
//for nine o'clock.//
//I'm not!// |
| F638 |
//bread was never//
rationed.
//Bread.// |
| F637 |
//Bread was//
rationed, Mary. |
| F638 |
I don't think
//[inaudible] you could buy,// |
| F637 |
//Yes, and it was B-Us//
you called them! |
| F638 |
eh as much
//bread as you liked.// |
| F637 |
//But, no you couldnae!// |
| F640 |
Do you remember goin for the shin-
//shin-// |
| F637 |
//And it wasnae b-// |
| F638 |
//oh, we//
//used tae go for what// |
| F637 |
//white bread.// |
| F638 |
we called 'shinners'. |
| M608 |
What's that? |
| F640 |
//Cinders.// |
| F637 |
//oh aye.// |
| F638 |
//eh//
like cinders
//for the// |
| M608 |
//Uh-huh// |
| F637 |
//It was fae the gas-works.// |
| F638 |
//fire, because yer coal ran//
out.
//Yer coal// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
ran out, ye didnae get enough
//coal durin the War.// |
| F637 |
//It was what was left after they//
burned the coal at the gas-works. |
| F638 |
So you
//you took an old pram,// |
| F637 |
//And my mother and I went.// |
| F640 |
//And I went too.// |
| F638 |
//or a bogie.//
//Aye, so did I.// |
| F637 |
//Did you go?// |
| F640 |
mmhm, we all went. |
| F638 |
And we went, we aw had tae take wur turn,
//and.// |
| F637 |
//And my dad//
got this big bag at the shipyard. And it was made oot o ehm
//sailcloth.// |
| F640 |
//A bag.// |
| F637 |
Well you know how heavy that was? |
| M608 |
mm, mm |
| F637 |
And I remember my mother, and it was a it was a huge big
//thing it must o been// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
aboot five feet
//long,// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
and maybe aboot |
| F638 |
[cough] |
| F637 |
that wide, three feet wide.
And, because it was a shillin, no matter how much, what size o bag ye took. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And he made us this thing wi old pram-wheels. Right? And two bits o wood along. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And away we would go, early in the mornin, so as nobody would see ye, cause ye were a wee bit ashamed o goin,
//ye know with, for these.// |
| M608 |
//mm//
mm |
| F637 |
And ye'd tae go away doon to the the gas-works, away doon at the bottom o Russell Street, near like the main street.
//That's where the// |
| M608 |
//mm// |
| F637 |
gas-works was. So ye went away in the mornin, and ye trailed this thing along, and ye went tae the gas-works, and ye g- filled it up wi the shinners and ye lifted it on tae the the wheels. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
And I remember my mother and I were comin up the road, and one o the wheels come off.
The pin come oot the wheel. |
| M608 |
oof |
| F637 |
Well, we were sittin, on the side of the road, the two o us, in tears, and these two men come along, and they said, "Whit's wrong, missus?" tae my mother, and my mother says, "oh, the wheels off my bogie."
And that what we cawed it, a bogie. And eh, "oh wait and I'll see what we can dae." he says. So, he ge- goes in his pocket and he gets a nail oot. And he puts the nail in through and puts the wheel back on and bent the nail up, and up we came, up the road. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
Ye know, but, I mean, i- that was the kind o things ye had tae dae
//then.// |
| F638 |
//[inaudible]//
do ye
//rem-// |
| F637 |
//But my//
mother could bake! And, there was an oven above the fire. |
| M608 |
mm |
| F637 |
And ye shut the doors on the fire. And, wi these shinners, they were really gave a really hot, ye know, fire. And she could bake in the oven up above.
//And that's,// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F637 |
ye couldnae control the heat.
//Ye just// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F637 |
she used tae make scones and things
//like that in there.// |
| F638 |
//ah but do you no remember//
when we worked for the tip man?
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]//
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//Deliverin shoes!//
//Do you not remember// |
| F637 |
//Aye, you an I!// |
| F638 |
that? |
| F637 |
oh God, aye.
//I remember that!// |
| F638 |
//This man, he went round//
the doors [inaudible]. Don't ask me how
//I ever got involved wi him. Don't ask// |
| F637 |
//He came fae Maybole and his name.// |
| F638 |
me! |
| F637 |
He came fae
//Maybole, his name was Mr Mulveen.// |
| F638 |
//but he delivered, he del-,//
he di- he delivered, he, know, people bought things on tick, pay up. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
And he was lookin for somebody tae deliver shoes, right? |
| F637 |
So mother
//volunteered us.// |
| F638 |
//So.//
Mother said we would do it for him. Ye got two shillins.
//Two shillings.// |
| F637 |
//A shillin each.// |
| F638 |
Two shillings each, |
| F637 |
Was it? |
| F638 |
for deliverin shoes. And, one week, I went
//away doon the harbour.// |
| F637 |
//But ye had tae go,//
//but ye had tae.// |
| F638 |
//Wait a minute!// |
| F637 |
Where ye'd tae go tae pick
//the shoes up?// |
| F638 |
//I'd [?]go[/?] away doon//
the harbour. |
| F637 |
//She'd tae go tae the// |
| M608 |
//uh-huh// |
| F638 |
Away Green Street, aw that area, th- and then, it was away oot Glebe Street, and away oot |
| F637 |
Heathfield. |
| F638 |
Heathfield. |
| F637 |
//Up the high street.// |
| M608 |
//mmhm// |
| F638 |
So we did a swap; one week I would go one place. And ye'd tae take this |
| F637 |
But we
//got// |
| F638 |
//bogie//
thing tae collect them.
//Ye'd these piles// |
| F637 |
//They came in a big// |
| F638 |
o shoes,
//imagine!// |
| F637 |
//an a, ye'd tae go//
tae the Newton
//Station,// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
and collect this, and it was a big eh |
| F640 |
It was like a big hold-all
//thing.// |
| F637 |
//A big bag,// |
| F638 |
//Aye.// |
| F637 |
huge big bag,
//full o boxes o shoes.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| M608 |
So you were delivering, you were delivering these
//to people?// |
| F637 |
//An we had to// |
| F638 |
//We were//
//delivering them tae people,// |
| F637 |
//go and deliver them.//
//Well ye might go to the high street.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//for two for two shillings.//
[laugh] |
| F637 |
Ye might go tae the high street maybe three or four times and climb away up the stairs and the bodie wouldnae be in.
And so ye'd tae bring them back and ye'd tae go back again, and keep goin back.
Sometimes it took ye a week tae get them aw delivered!
//Ye know?// |
| F638 |
//But we did that//
for two
//shillings. [laugh]// |
| F637 |
//Aye, we did that!// |
| M608 |
How old would you be when ye were doin that? |
| F637 |
//oh, it was when we left the school.// |
| F638 |
//oh, we would be aboot f-,//
oh we'd would be aboot
//fourteen, thirteen// |
| F637 |
//Aye, thirteen,//
maybe. |
| F638 |
[inaudible]
//aye, you'd be// |
| F637 |
//Roon aboot// |
| F638 |
fourteen. I'd be thirteen,
//[inaudible]. But eh.// |
| F637 |
//No, I was workin at fourteen, so it was before that.// |
| F638 |
No, we did that on a
//Saturday,// |
| F637 |
//Aye, that was a//
//Saturday.// |
| F638 |
//oh and then//
//I thought [exhale].// |
| F640 |
//Aye, but ye never got keepin the//
money. Ye handed it
//over.// |
| F637 |
//oh no!// |
| F638 |
//Aye, ye//
gave it to my mother.
//Same// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//oh no.// |
| F638 |
wi my money.
//I worked in the Dairy for, I'd tae give it tae my// |
| F637 |
//And then we co- we come in one day.// |
| F638 |
mother. |
| F637 |
We came in one day, John, an an eh, up at where Dalmillan is now, |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
was just aw fields. And, we said tae my mother, "Mum, there's tatty-howkin jobs goin on up there." This was durin the Sat-, ye know,
//the summer// |
| M608 |
//Aye.// |
| F637 |
holidays, eh and the s- and some o the soldiers, fae the racecourse, were helpin tae lift them. Ye know, lift the potatoes.
We're, "There's tatty-howkin jobs goin up there, mum. Can we go?"
//And she says,// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
"No, yer dad would have a fit! He's drivin the tatty-howkers and and and your goin tae want tae work.
How much are they payin?" she says. So we said it was
//[inaudible] it was, I think we got, we had// |
| F638 |
//I think it was ten shillins, I think we got.// |
| F637 |
a day and a half oot it and I think we got ten shillin. But eh, so there we got aw dressed up; one o my mothers old aprons on, ye know.
And up we went eh tae li-. And I think I was the only tatty-howker that ever wore gloves, tatty-howkin, cause I was terrified I'd touch a worm,
//in among the soil.// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
I was petrified fae worms! And I wore this old pair a gloves tae lift these tat- eh tatties. And we come back, and my mother gave us eh, sixpence each tae go, gave her the money and she gave us
//sixpence tae go tae the pictures.// |
| F638 |
//We went tae see Tarzan//
//at the Gaumont.// |
| F637 |
//Aye.//
//That's right. And ye queued up doon the// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//[laugh]//
//Doon the back,// |
| F637 |
//back.// |
| F638 |
for the cheap seats.
//And Bill- Billy Hutchison// |
| F637 |
//The cheap seats.//
//uh-huh and Alan Canlish.// |
| F638 |
//went wi us that night and remember these boys//
were carryin on |
| F637 |
mmhm |
| F638 |
And he, but there was a fight, they belted them, and |
| F637 |
Aye. |
| F638 |
But we got in tae see Tarzan for a sixpence! [laugh] |
| F637 |
We did! |
| F640 |
But, of course, ye never objected tae it. Ye never thought anything about
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//oh no, g- hand the money in,//
//no, no.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F638 |
//No, that was it!// |
| F640 |
yours or
//anything.// |
| F637 |
//No, no.// |
| F638 |
//That was,//
that was it,
//that, it never was your// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]//
//And then my mother// |
| F638 |
//money.// |
| F637 |
was in the Co-operative, and, ye had
//dividend,// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
//you know, and// |
| M608 |
//Aye, aye.// |
| F637 |
a, and ye got,
//ye got.// |
| F638 |
//That still//
happens! |
| F640 |
//It's restarted,// |
| F637 |
//Aye well, it's sta-, they//
//started again.// |
| F640 |
//yeah.// |
| F638 |
//uh-huh// |
| F637 |
But you got the dividend, an it was paid oot once a quarter. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
So when it came, the dividend, we used to say, "oh we'd like this, and we'd like that and we'd like thi-". No, ye always went tae the Co-operative, and ye couldnae go tae any other shop.
Ye'd tae go tae Co-operative for yer school shoes, ye know? And, they werenae fashionable, John. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
Ye know, they were just lacin shoes, or a,
//a// |
| F640 |
//Apron-fronted.// |
| F637 |
apron-fronted, no, oh, ye knaw, and ye felt like an old fuddy-duddy, didn't you, Eleanor? |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
And eh oh |
| F640 |
But you'd tae queue up, |
| F637 |
oh aye,
//you queued up.// |
| F638 |
//Aye ye'd tae//
//queue. Ye'd tae// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible] because//
//bother [inaudible] the// |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| F638 |
//queue for yer shoes.// |
| F640 |
shoes up, so ye
//stood// |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible] the academy// |
| F638 |
//Mind I got them for the weddin?// |
| F640 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
//Aye, pff.// |
| F640 |
I was petrified in case some of the classmates would see me standin
//in the Co-operative// |
| F637 |
//Aye.// |
| F638 |
//Aye.// |
| F640 |
queue. |
| F637 |
I know.
//When ye went in.// |
| F638 |
//Aye, but I got, I//
I went, I was a eh oor Margaret's bridesmaid,
//right?// |
| F637 |
//My mother//
made her frock. |
| F638 |
She made my hat! It was like, have ye heard of Turkish Delight?
//Ye know wi the// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
thing and the roll on it.
//And it had a feather in it, I wanted tae have a feather in my hat!// |
| F637 |
//An a feather! [laugh]// |
| F640 |
Our mother was partial to feathers. |
| F638 |
Well, the hat was grey. Now, here, I'm only
//eighteen, right.// |
| F637 |
//[cough]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
[inaudible] I went tae the Co-operative tae get shoes. John, they didnae have my size, so I'd tae take a size bigger!
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//And stuff them with cotton wool!//
//And they were flat, [laugh] flat suede things wi laces on them.// |
| F638 |
//I'd tae take a, I'd tae take a, but that that's.//
Excuse me, they'd a wedge heel!
//But they'd a big [laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F637 |
//They looked flat!// |
| F638 |
//They'd a big loop//
here at the back where you could pull them on, and they were suede, but they were too big for me, but, I couldnae go anywhere else for shoes, so, was I a cutie at that wedding, I can tell you? |
| F637 |
[laugh] |
| F638 |
//An// |
| M608 |
//Do you still have the photographs?// |
| F637 |
//Aye. I've got the photographs. I've still got a school photo.// |
| F638 |
//a-, oh don't ever show them tae anybody!// |
| F637 |
I've got a school photo
//they taken.// |
| F638 |
//Don't ever//
show them tae anybody.
//Cause I must've looked// |
| F637 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
I mean,
//imagine ye take a six in a shoe and ye'd// |
| F637 |
//And my mother made this frock.// |
| F638 |
tae come out wi sevens, because [laugh] |
| M608 |
[laugh] |
| F638 |
couldnae afford tae go anywhere else for a pair o shoes for a weddin! |
| F637 |
oh aye.
//Yeah, but see, the, the mornin// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
I got married, |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
//The mornin I got married -// |
| F638 |
//[cough]// |
| F637 |
get the kettle on. |
| F640 |
Well, she cannae
//move.// |
| F637 |
//Ye cannae.// |
| F638 |
//I'm attached! [referring to microphone lead]// |
| M608 |
//[inaudible]// |
| F637 |
ehm
//the mornin I got// |
| F638 |
//I'm attached!// |
| F637 |
married, I went and bought, I went oot for my goin-away outfit. |
| M608 |
mmhm |
| F637 |
Now I hadnae my goin-away ootfit, an my hat, an my shoes, till the mornin I got married. And I was gettin married in the afternoon. |
| F638 |
Aye, them were the days. |
| M608 |
Aye. |
| F637 |
eh, they were the good old days, Mary!
//[laugh]// |
| F640 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
//[laugh]// |
| M608 |
//[laugh]// |
| F638 |
They were not good old days, don't you kid yourself. |
| F640 |
[laugh] |
| M608 |
Okay, on that happy note, I think we'll [inaudible]. |
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