Document 1676

M1193 My very early reading would be hazy to say the least.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Erm, it would be before the war. Er we were living, my brother and sister and I lived with our grandmother //and//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 spinster aunt. While Dad, he, he was, he was an auxiliary airforce person and the minute the war started //he was whipped away.//

F1189 //Mmhm mmhm.//

M1193 Erm. We didn't have any contact with our mother so we were actually brought up by our grandmother during the war.

F1189 Right uh-huh.

M1193 My aunt had a great influence, really, in my life because she was pretty kee-keen on, you know, getting us onto learning very early and ehm I know she gave me a big help as far as reading and writing and that sort of thing went //before school.//

F1189 //This was your aunt, David?// //Yes, uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 //Yeah, spinster aunt.// Erm and she was with eh I lived there for oh till I was twenty-one, twenty-two.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 So she's a big influence in my life. And probably was one of the main people in getting me to read, you know, anything really.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Oh I suppose we read the Beano and the Dandy and //all those.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 Oor Wullie and all [laugh], the Broons and all those sort of things.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Er on- erm of course once the comics came out after the war, I'm not so sure we, those comics were available during the war. I don't think the Hotspur and the Adventurer, they may have been, I can't remember. But I used to read the Hotspur faithfully every week. But I got into reading, I liked the adventure and history and ehm Sir Walter Scott's. Most of those books I've read.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm Robert Louis Stevenson I suppose.

F1189 Hm.

M1193 "Treasure Island" //and ehm//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 and eh Walter Scott, he wrote "Red Gauntlet", didn't he? //Yes.//

F1189 //He did, yeah.//

M1193 Yeah, I'm just trying to think of all the other ones. //Eh.//

F1189 //Well, one way// it might be easier for you to remember when you read things and, and,

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 how you got your hands on them, is if you tell me a wee bit about ehm where it was you lived. You were born in //nineteen thirty-four, is that right?//

M1193 //Oh yeah, well, sorry, well// we lived in Partick

F1189 Mm.

M1193 in Thornwood Terrace

F1189 Mm.

M1193 which was just up the road from the Clyde.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We could see the granary or the 'grainery', //whatever you want to//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 call it. And I lived there for oh gosh, sixteen, seventeen years I suppose.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. We went to the local church at ehm Balshagray. And I was in the Boys' Brigade, the Life Boys and that sort of thing.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Youth Fellowship. We spent most of our Sunday at church which was the usual thing in those days. //Er.//

F1189 //Were your family quite religious then, David?//

M1193 Well, my grandmother certainly was, //and//

F1189 //Hmm.//

M1193 ehm we went to the church and that //was it.//

F1189 //Mm// mmhm.

M1193 Sunday school in the morning and Bible class in the afternoon and we used to go to Youth Fellowship at night. I enjoyed it. And the Boys' Brigade of course, I did, we went, that was every Friday night.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I did reasonably well there, I got my King's badge when I was... And then of course ehm I went to Hyndland school, which again was only quarter of an hour up the road.

F1189 Did you go to ehm a primary school in Thornwood, //or Glasgow?//

M1193 //Ah well, the// primary school was across the road.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Thornwood

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Primary School, it's still there in fact.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Yes, I went there till I was eleven and then I went to Hyndland Senior Secondary School and spent five years there.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And then I did my horticultural training with the Glasgow Corporation Arts Department.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And a couple of years at eh West of Scotland Agricultural College.

F1189 Oh that's down in eh Auchincruive.

M1193 I don't think it's even, I don't think it exists anymore, not in Glasgow. We used to do our theory in Glasgow and used to go down Edinburgh somewhere to do a couple of weeks' //practical.//

F1189 //Right.// //Uh-huh uh-huh mmhm.//

M1193 //I can- I can't remember the name of the place.//

F1189 If we go back to, to your house in Thornwood, you were there for a good long time, sixteen //years.//

M1193 //Yes,// we weren't evacuated, fact we were probably the only people in our street who weren't //evacuated.//

F1189 //Really? Uh-huh.// What age were you when your, your dad went into the RAF then?

M1193 Well, I can remember it vividly. I was, he went in 1939 so I would have been six.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Five, six.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We were at Helensburgh on holiday and

F1189 Mm.

M1193 he came down and kissed us goodbye and was away [laugh].

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 And we could- I couldn't figure out what was going on. //That was//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 just when war was declared.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 So he was away in ehm he was in the six-oh-two Glasgow, city of Glasgow //squadron.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.// Did he join up or was he part of //an auxiliary?//

M1193 //He was in the auxiliary,// //which//

F1189 //Ah right.//

M1193 before the, //[?]first to be used[/?].//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 And then of course they're first

F1189 Mmhm. //Mmhm.//

M1193 //taken away so he was away right at the very beginning.//

F1189 And what did he do for a living before the war?

M1193 He worked in the Albion Motorworks. //So he//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 was a motor mechanic.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And he did a similar type of job in, in the RAF. He couldn't fly because he's colour-blind.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But he looked after the planes he was in charge of. //Whereas...//

F1189 //So he was// an engineer then?

M1193 Yeah, he was an engineer //yeah, and ehm//

F1189 //Mmhm mm.//

M1193 that's what he did throughout //the war.//

F1189 //Mmhm mmhm.// Hmm.

M1193 And he was a wing commander //when he left.//

F1189 //Mmhm// mmhm. And you all lived in, was it your grandmother's house then?

M1193 Yeah, was the We all, th-th-the three of us lived there but my father ehm remarried.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And eh we had the usual family

F1189 Mm.

M1193 squabbles and //[cough]//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 without going into it in detail I preferred to stay with my grandmother. //So I stayed//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 there and my brother and sister and the rest of them went up to Hillhead.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm I didn't particularly like it up there so as I, I came back down.

F1189 Mmhm. So how, //how many brothers and sisters//

M1193 //then I think...// //I've just got//

F1189 //do you have?//

M1193 ehm well I've got a half-sister

F1189 Mm.

M1193 who lives here //in New Zealand//

F1189 //Mmhm.// //Oh right, uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 //because they emigrated to New Zealand.// And I came out here in 1965.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 And ehm yeah um one brother and a sister at home.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 Who, they're older than I am.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm. So there's four of you?

M1193 Yes four //of us altogether, yeah.//

F1189 //Four of you uh-huh.// //And where//

M1193 //Mm.//

F1189 do you fall in-in-in the family then?

M1193 Ehm. Between my brother and sister at home and I, I was the youngest and then Freddie who lives out here she's, she's the youngest of the four of us.

F1189 Right uh-huh so you're, you're in the middle really.

M1193 Yeah. //[laugh]//

F1189 //[laugh]// Now, in your house in Thornwood then, your grandmother's house, ehm were there books in the house?

M1193 Yes.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 There definitely were //because//

F1189 //Hmm.//

M1193 we ehm my aunt Peggy, she, she introduced me to a lot of that sort of thing, //books, but I//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 honestly can't remember ehm exactly what the ones were.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm. I've got a few of, is it J B Priestley?

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 In fact I think they're even out there somewhere. Ehm but I don't honestly remember reading any of his, his books.

F1189 Were they your aunt's books then?

M1193 Yeah, yeah, she //sh-she//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 bequeathed them to me.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But she certainly got me interested in, I was interested in history right from the beginning //so//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I followed a lot of ehm, we're supposed to be related in some way to Greek Thomson, you prob-

F1189 Oh yes, I've //heard uh-huh//

M1193 //Supposed to be.// //[laugh]//

F1189 //uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 I, I tried to do some research //on him and//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 his family tree's about that //width.//


M1193 About eleven, twelve, thirteen children so

F1189 Mm.

M1193 where we come in that set-up, I've no idea //to be honest.//

F1189 //[laugh]// Is that part of family lore do you think or, or is //do you think it's probably based on//

M1193 //Well, I'm i-i-// it's rather //strange because//

F1189 //accuracy?//

M1193 my sister lives in Balfron.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm for some, ehm Greek Thomson had some connection with Balfron.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Eh the people of Balfron got to know Alison and thought the connection, the connection because ehm she opened the, they must have had a special eh room in the library or something for him.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But I'm, I have my doubts whether we're any,

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 we're related to that extent.

F1189 Well, you'll maybe be able to prove it sometime.

M1193 Well, let's see, my brother started it //but//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I haven't got onto it //yet.//

F1189 //Mm.// Now, where did you keep books then? There were books, your aunt had books, you say. //Where were they kept?//

M1193 //Yeah, well// There were ehm, yeah, we had a fairly big bookcase.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I, I just can't remember all that too much. Ehm of course during the war I'm not so sure that there were all that many books printed or //even,//

F1189 //Mm// mmhm.

M1193 even comic books

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I don't think were printed to any great extent.

F1189 Can you remember the first book //that you owned?//

M1193 //No...// It would be one of the Biggles books probably.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 I've read all of, all of those //books.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 Erm. Or it could have been ehm, "The Thirty-Nine Steps" was a book I read early on.

F1189 Mm. Oh what age were you about when you read that? //Because it is an adult book, isn't it?//

M1193 //[inaudible]// Yeah, I was probably ten, twelve. //Oh no, I'd be//

F1189 //Were you?//

M1193 twelve, thirteen maybe.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But all the Biggles books I read long before that.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And I enjoyed, I used to go to the library. I used to go to the Whiteinch Library. And we were made to go to the library //which was//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 quite good really.

F1189 You were made to go?

M1193 Well, my aunt used to instruct and say `Well if you don't read you don't learn' so.

F1189 Your aunt seems to have been a big //influence in that way mm.//

M1193 //Oh big influence in my, my life.// //Yeah, there's no question about that.//


M1193 She was a very clever lady.

F1189 Mm. And what did she do for a living?

M1193 She was a, she was an accountant

F1189 Mm.

M1193 in a lawyer's firm, and ehm she worked there ehm in the one firm just about all her life I think.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm. A lady accountant th-th-that's something //then.//

M1193 //Yeah, that's// away back, //and//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 she was pretty well respected //in//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 in her job.

F1189 Do you remember anything of what she liked to read?

M1193 No, I honestly can't, to be //honest.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 No, it's, it's a, it's a pity but I can't really remember.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 [throat]

F1189 But did she direct your reading in any way by buying you books or //or//

M1193 //Well// she always made [throat] If I... she used to buy, she probably bought most of the Biggles books I read and also

F1189 Mm.

M1193 ehm Robert Louis Stevenson's, you know, "Treasure Island" //amongst others.//


M1193 I used to get them for Christmas presents or ehm, and I also used to get eh presents from the Boys' Brigade. //Best attendance and all this sort of thing.//

F1189 //Oh yes uh-huh uh-huh.// uh-huh.

M1193 I've still got them out there.

F1189 Mmhm oh well, we could maybe have a look at them then, the //books you got.//

M1193 //Yeah, yeah.// We've actually ju- I've just tidied a lot of the books up //because//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 we've had a swag of The Reader's Digest

F1189 Mm.

M1193 omnibus editions. I joined The Reader's Digest thirty, forty years ago, //I suppose.//


M1193 But eh when I went into the RAF to do my National Service I was in Germany

F1189 Mm.

M1193 for a while. And that's when I joined the World Book Club which doesn't exist anymore I don't think. And that got me into reading quite a lot of different ehm books.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 But most of my books were either ehm history orientated or ehm autobiography so //I was very//

F1189 //Mmhm// mmhm.

M1193 nosy, shall we say, in eh people, you know, in the past.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Scott and all those people.

F1189 What did you think about the, the Walter Scott novels? //Mm.//

M1193 //I rather liked them.// I, I know pe-people used to say they were maybe a bit funny but I'm sure I've read most of them. Ehm, I think I was probably a patriotic Scot, I suppose, in those days. Anything English I didn't like.

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 But ehm no, I-I-I didn't have any great trouble reading those books. I, I usually finished them.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Very often you start a book and you don't, you see five or six hundred pages, you don't, and you don't bother but ehm

F1189 Now, where did you get the Scott novels? Did you own them?

M1193 I think I had them, fact I've

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I don't know whether I've still got some here or not. Ehm. I know at one time we did own S- er Sir Walter Sco- er Walter Scott omnibus.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 With all his books in at the one time but, I've, since I left home and been around but

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 eh I never actually got that book. //So where//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 it is now //I wouldn't know.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 My brother might have it. But ehm

F1189 Did yo ever re-read the Scott novels?

M1193 Yes I've read, I have read them again because eh with the ehm Reader's Digest omnibus, you know, the shortened version, it very often came up in the five books that you're reading are the full books,

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 ehm. But ehm I've, I've very often read our Reader's Digest and then gone back to reading the full story.

F1189 Mmhm, right uh-huh.

M1193 I have done that

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 a few times.

F1189 Now, Whiteinch Library I have been in, //erm,//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 it's quite a small library.

M1193 It certainly was //pretty small//

F1189 //Mm.// //Mmhm mmhm mmhm.//

M1193 //in those days, yeah.// But ehm

F1189 Can you remember anything about it?

M1193 I can remember the librarians

F1189 Mm.

M1193 ehm this business of having to keep quiet all the time.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It looks from my point of view, it looked quite a nice, nice entrance to it, if I remember right. I've no idea what it's like now. //But ehm//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 No, we, I used to enjoy going down there.

F1189 Did your aunt take you or did you //go on your own?//

M1193 //No we went [?]with others[/?].// I had a friend, he was a bit like me so we used to go down there together.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And then we would play in the park on the way through, sort of thing.

F1189 Mmhm. //Would you say//

M1193 //Ehm.//

F1189 you were quite bookish then, as a child?

M1193 I think, well... yes, probably I would, I would say that, I would quite enjoy the

F1189 Mm.

M1193 reading. But the comics, you know, the eh we used to get the usual Dandy, Beano and The Broons for Christmas or whatever, used to get those books.

F1189 How did you buy the Dandy and the Beano? Ehm.

M1193 Oh we got it on a weekly, it was a weekly thing if I remember right.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 And the Hotspur, it came out on a Thursday or a Friday.

F1189 Mm. //And what was it//

M1193 //Ehm.//

F1189 that you liked about the Hotspur?

M1193 Well, there again I liked the adventure stories in there.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 The, the continuations week by week.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 I enjoyed those.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Whether it was just fantasy or [laugh] the imagination runs wild.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 No, I quite enjoyed it.

F1189 mmhm

M1193 And I bought the Hotspur for a long long time.

F1189 Mm. Now you said you, you weren't evacuated even though you lived quite near the Clyde.

M1193 Hmm //my//

F1189 //Hmm.//

M1193 grandmother was adamant.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I think, I'm not a hundred per cent sure but I think they were going to separate us.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 The three of us, //there was only the//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 three of us at that time.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And she said `no way'. And she got away with it which was quite surprising. But funnily enough, you talk about that. I've just seen this ehm Asp-, you know the chap who does the Antique Roadshow?

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 He's just had a programme. He was evacuated.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And they've just it's ehm shown as a series on, that he's just refilmed, //you know, filmed with,//

F1189 //Mm mm.//

M1193 going back to the... In some cases it's been good, some cases it's pretty disastrous [inaudible]. I know that we had eh people that came back from Canada.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 I think there was three girls. And the mother was at home obviously and ehm I think they stayed a year, then went back to Canada.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 They just couldn't.

F1189 It could be disruptive, yes, of a family.

M1193 So we were pretty lucky, I think.

F1189 I'm just thinking, if you were there all during the war you must have seen the bombs drop

M1193 Oh yeah, we ehm

F1189 on Clydebank?

M1193 There was one dropped I don't know whether you know, Crow Road in Glasgow.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 There was one dropped there, it didn't explode.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We used to go up and have a look at it.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But we had the big water tank at //the...//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 There's only, Thornwood Terrace is only th-th-three houses.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It's extended now but //in those//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 days it was three //tenement bu-.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 And we had a vacant [inaudible] office at the school. And that was made into one of those water tanks as well. But we always went we-we-we went across the road to the school for, the siren went, that's where we went, the air raid shelter.

F1189 Right, I see.

M1193 Just across the road.

F1189 Yes, how many people would have been in //the air raid shelter, then?//

M1193 //Oh yeah, yeah.//

F1189 Would there have been quite a few?

M1193 Well, there was, there was ehm I think there was three air raid shelters //in the school.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 Ehm we went to the one obviously nearest us.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It was always pretty full.

F1189 Mm. //Erm,//

M1193 //And//

F1189 were you able to read in the air raid shelter or would you have wanted to?

M1193 Oh it was pretty dark. We used, we were too excited really, I think we used to enter it and watch what was going on above. Ehm. No, we didn't, we didn't really read. It wasn't conducive to reading, I don't think.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Er we slept most of the time.

F1189 Hmm. Well, you were quite young, ehm.

M1193 Well, yeah, I was six, seven maybe.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm during the Battle of Britain.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm but... No, we, we had quite good times actually [laugh], made your own fun, made your own friends and ehm. As I say, there weren't that many of us around in, between forty, forty-three, forty-four. But ehm

F1189 Can you remember reading anything about what was going on

M1193 Oh yes.

F1189 with the war?

M1193 Yeah, I used to read quite a bit.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm. Papers, I read the paper. The, I think it was the Bulletin it was called

F1189 Mm.

M1193 in those days. Ehm. Yes, I, I was always interested in the war, whether that's a sort of mercenary attitude, I don't know [laugh]. I used to go and watch all the ehm, how the Americans won the war, //you know, in, in films,//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 at the cinema. But eh Yes, I've read most of the stories and, and I got a a book, the city of Glasgow six-oh-two squadron. That was presented to me by the Duke of Hamilton.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And ehm I was very interested in that because my father knew all the, the aces and that. And ehm so... And, and I've always read, I've al-always been interested in what, you know, what happened in the past, not, I'm not, I'm not a futures person.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm I like to look back rather than look forward.

F1189 I'm just wondering th-this wee boy who was excited about the bombs dropping [laugh], //[laugh]//

M1193 //[laugh]//

F1189 and the fireworks no doubt, //ehm if that extended into//

M1193 //Yeah, we, well we got into trouble for it.//

F1189 what you liked to read as a, a, //as a small boy?//

M1193 //I think to some extent it// probably did, yeah, you're //probably right.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 But I know at school, I wasn't particularly brilliant but I liked history

F1189 Mm.

M1193 and ehm I was eh I was quite good at history in actual fact. And eh William Wallace and Robert the Bruce and all that.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 [inaudible] of course.

F1189 Do you remember reading about them?

M1193 Oh yes, very much so. I can even picture the book I used to read

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 on William Wallace and ehm

F1189 Well, tell me about that then.

M1193 Well we, eh even in primary school, we learned about them. And I suppose, during the war, there weren't all that many books around from, I wouldn't think they were printing school books.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 And we were taught by, funnily enough I was taught by a a Miss Thomson. There was no men in the school, it was all women. And ehm she was very good, she was a great teacher. But I just seemed to... It was a wee thin book, it was about so big and had all those //pictures of//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 William Wallace and ehm all the bad English people that were //around then.//

F1189 //[laugh]//

M1193 But ehm no, I can remember reading those books ehm quite clearly but I can't remember anything else about... I wasn't good at geography so I put a blank on that, I just, I never particularly liked geography. But throughout senior school too I wasn't too bad at history.

F1189 Mm. What age were you when you left school?

M1193 Seventeen, eighteen. //Seventeen.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 Yeah, cause I went to the National Service when I was eighteen.

F1189 Mmhm. So did you go straight from school //to National Service?//

M1193 //No, I was, I// I, I joined the Glasgow Corporation Parks Department //and//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I thought I might have got exemption through that but I didn't. I was there for eighteen months, I think it was

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 and then I was called up. And I did my two years. Eighteen months in Germany.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And ehm that was when I extended my reading cause there wasn't a hell of a lot else to do there.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And ehm

F1189 Now, Hyndland, was th- was that a fee-paying school //at the time? No,//

M1193 //No. No.// //No.//

F1189 //it wasn't?// //Did you have to sit in-.//

M1193 //No, it's a s-senior// secondary school. //No, my brother went to a fee-paying school,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 but I didn't.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Sister and I went to Hyndland.

F1189 Mmhm. Ehm it's quite a good school, though, it was //a senior secondary.//

M1193 //Oh, it's a very good school.// I think it's still going.

F1189 Mmhm it is. //Yeah ehm.//

M1193 //Yeah, I, I haven't been// up there for a long long time.

F1189 Did you have to sit a qualifying exam

M1193 Yes, //that's right.//

F1189 //to go there?//

M1193 We had the qualifying exams.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 That's right, we did too.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Yeah, so I managed to pass that [?]figure or not[/?].

F1189 Do you remember studying at all for, for that exam?

M1193 Actually I wasn't a very good study.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm. I used to go to the Mitchell library in, when I went to the Agricultural college.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And I, I don't think I really studied, I don't think, I was just looking at the pages.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But ehm no, I wasn't very academic-inclined in that respect.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I prefer to do it practically, //than//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 other ways.

F1189 You were reading all the time you were at Hyndland secondary. //And you mentioned//

M1193 //Yeah, well of course.//

F1189 Buchan there.

M1193 Yeah, that's right. Well eh a lot of the English books, we used to get the home readers I suppose.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 And some of them were Charles Dickens, I wasn't a great fan of Dickens, I was [laugh]. Ehm funnily enough I used to like Shakespeare at school.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I might not have understood some of it but ehm I used to quite //enjoy reading that.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 Macbeth and Richard the First, Second and ehm

F1189 Do you ever remember discussing any of this with your aunt?

M1193 I discussed a lot of, she was a Sir Walter Scott person.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And ehm I could always go to her and ask. She was always pretty good that way.

F1189 Mm mmhm.

M1193 Ehm, and she'd make suggestions, you know of, how to read, or you know, whether you read two chapters or three chapters or half the book. //But she was//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 very good that way. But eh I enjoyed, yeah I must admit I enjoyed reading. And then of course when we were in to the, we got into the, after the war we used to get Time magazine.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Well, I got Time magazine, yeah, when I was in Germany.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And I used to read that from cover to cover

F1189 Mm.

M1193 for many years. And National Geographic was another. I used to buy and read that.

F1189 Do you actually buy those, David?

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Well you, well we got them, well I got them up until, what? Oh, three, three, four years ago I suppose. Ehm till they started getting a bit pricey //and//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 we weren't, I mean I wasn't working, I was retired by then, so we stopped, I stopped both of them in actual fact.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But I kept the Reader's Digest going. I like the Reader's Digest.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 It's not really half the magazine it used to be.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Not quite.

F1189 Do you think so? In what way has it changed?

M1193 It's smaller for a start,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 ehm thinner.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And also I think Time magazine's changed, it's not quite the magazine it was

F1189 Mm.

M1193 ten years ago, //five years ago,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I don't think.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Hmm. Yes it's eh [?]that still[/?] come back to me every now and again [laugh].

F1189 Things do come back to you.

M1193 Yes, it's surprising really.

F1189 Now, you've talked quite a bit about ehm your National Service. Did you choose the RAF then?

M1193 Yeah, well, my father was in the RAF //and my,//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 my brother did his National Service in the RAF.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But I'm rather a pig-headed person, I wanted to join the army [laugh].

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 And ehm

F1189 Did you just want to be different?

M1193 Yes, like they, they supported Rangers soccer team and I supported Hibernian. //[laugh]//

F1189 //[laugh]// Hibs! //And you a Glaswegian?//

M1193 //[laugh]//

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 Well for-, I used to play with a bloke whose uncle

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 played for Hibernian.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 So I said oh I'll, I'll support Hibernian.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm. //And, and did you say the others all supported Rangers?//

M1193 //However that's...// Oh yes. //Very much so.//

F1189 //Uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 They still do [laugh].

F1189 What about you, do you still follow football?

M1193 Yeah, not so much. I, I got into playing rugby ehm why, I'll never know really, //because I was too small to start with//

F1189 //Mm mmhm mmhm.//

M1193 and I wasn't bad at soccer.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I played soccer up until senior school, //prima-//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 eh secondary school.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm my brother was playing rugby and I thought oh well, he can play it, I'll try //it out too.//

F1189 //Mmhm, mmhm.//

M1193 I used to play cricket.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But eh in fact I was a member of the West of Scotland Cricket Club.

F1189 Well, that cricket club's not far from where you lived.

M1193 No, that's right. I used to walk down //there with my bat under my arm and [laugh],//

F1189 //Uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 and ehm

F1189 Do you ever recall reading anything about sports then?

M1193 Oh yes eh well, I've got a few, a lot, a few cricket books //ehm//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 I got a few golf books.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. Yeah, I read those. I didn't, I wasn't a great fan of ehm autobio-autobiographical

F1189 Mm.

M1193 eh like me read- writing a book about my

F1189 Mm.

M1193 escapades. I don't, never, and statistics I wasn't ehm interested in.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm but I've got eh books on how to play most sports.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And ehm [?]so I like my[/?] cricket.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I've, yeah, I've read quite a few of those.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And...

F1189 Did you go to watch football in Glasgow?

M1193 No, I didn't go to soccer, no, //I didn't.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 Ehm in the first place there was nobody really to take me.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm my father was oh he was during the war //but ehm//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 after the war he didn't go //to watch//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 soccer, the odd occasion he might have.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm but oh My grandmother wouldn't let me go to any Celtic-Rangers games, it was just impossible [laugh].

F1189 Well, I was going to ask you. It's a, a, it's a contentious issue still, //in Glasgow, football.//

M1193 //Well, it's stil-, isn't it? Yeah.// //Yeah.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I watch the odd game on, on telly and Sky //TV//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 show the odd one now and again. Ehm, I've lost interest in soccer, I think.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I think ev-ever since it became such a professional money game //it's//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 changed entirely.

F1189 Now, I'm told th-that there is more interest in soccer in New Zealand //now.//

M1193 //It's// It's coming good. //Yeah.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 They've ehm... It's, I don't know how they're, it's not for the want of trying but the people who have been running it are basically English or Scottish.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I'm not so sure that that's the best way to... They're, they're thinking from the way they were trained and it's //not//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 the same out here.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But no, they've improved a bit.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Eh but I don't know, I don't watch sport now at all.

F1189 So, so what do you think they're doing wrong then, in coming out here?

M1193 [laugh] Well, I wouldn't really know to be honest i-it's the, a New Zealander is quite a different person from even me or, or certainly the English people. And trying to push your ways onto theirs.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It's, the mentality's different, the //upbringing's//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 different. They're a lot more casual out here ehm, certainly in soccer, maybe not in rugby but certainly in soccer.

F1189 Mm. Well they take rugby very seriously. //[laugh] [laugh]//

M1193 //Oh aye, take that, it's the other end, you take it too seriously.// I don't watch, I don't watch rugby now either, very seldom.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 This competition we have at the moment.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It's probably the hardest competition in rugby.

F1189 Mmhm yes, uh-huh.

M1193 Oh it's a tough super-fourteen as they call it.

F1189 Now, I'm interested in the reading that you did as a National Serviceman. Eh.

M1193 Ah well, that, that ehm, that's when I read a lot of Time magazine.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm, they can't, they can't, I, I spent eighteen months in Germany

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 and I'm not a hundred per cent sure that the camp actually had a library. That's when I joined the World Book Club, that's right.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm I used to get the books

F1189 Mm

M1193 sent to me, but what they all were I wouldn't honestly know now.

F1189 Can you remember any of them?

M1193 It's not that long since I threw them out.

F1189 Oh you kept them.

M1193 Oh yeah.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 Aye, that book there was full of

F1189 There's a //bookcase//

M1193 //ehm//

F1189 just through ehm. //We're in David's sitting room and//

M1193 //Reader's Digest and//

F1189 there's a bookcase in the hall.

M1193 Janet'll tell you that there's a thing in eh. Since we moved into this smaller house here we thought oh we've got to get rid of some of them.

F1189 Eh.

M1193 So we gave some to the, I've got two daughters and we gave some to them. The rest we just nobody wanted them, the library didn't, the libraries don't take The Reader's Digest //books which actually//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 surprises me, I can't understand that.

F1189 Mm, mmhm.

M1193 Eh, I suppose it's their turnover and the full book [inaudible].

F1189 So did you get, how often did you get sent books through the World Book Club?

M1193 Oh well that, that lasted quite a while.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm. I have a funny feeling the World Book Club packed in.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I've a feeling it, I can't honestly remember. But no, I wa-was a member of that for two or three years.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm. //W-was it//

M1193 //I think.//

F1189 promoted to Serviceman then at all?

M1193 Well, I'm not sure. Ehm I think I might even have started that at home originally.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I got them to send them out to me in eh in, in Germany.

F1189 Mm. You said that you, you didn't think there was a library in the, in the camp.

M1193 Yeah, well, I-I-I worked in a radio, I was a wireless operator.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And it was a small camp we were in. I don't, I certainly don't remember going to the library, put it that way.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Maybe I didn't bother, maybe I didn't //read so much then as//

F1189 //[?]you didn't[/?] [laugh]// //You,//

M1193 //ehm//

F1189 you said yourself there wasn't much else to do sometimes. Eh.

M1193 Well we didn't have a lot of eh, we weren't allowed to go into the, you know, I'm talking nineteen fifty-one, //fifty-two, sorry.//

F1189 //Hmm mmhm.//

M1193 It's not that long after the war.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 We weren't allowed to go into town //by ourselves,//

F1189 //Mmhm.// Mmhm.

M1193 eh or even in pairs, we had to go in in threes and fours.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Because there was still a lot of bitterness.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And ehm

F1189 Did you have to wear a uniform when you were out?

M1193 Yeah, you were supposed to wear uniform all the time,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 basically.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm, but it was ehm [inaudible] I enjoyed my National Service.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Something I think everyone should have done sometime or other.

F1189 And how come you didn't go to the army?

M1193 Ah well eh what happened then? When I went for my interview I did the usual. I wanted to be, you know, become a flyer but when they mix all those numbers up in the different colours I couldn't pick them out.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Which was the same as my father, he was the same thing so. And they said òh you'll have to sign on'.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I said `Well I'm not signing on for three, five years' and ehm I said Ì'll go into the army if it comes to the crunch'.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And next thing I-, they said Òkay, we'll see, we'll let you know what's going on'. And surprise surprise they said I couldn't stay and do my two years in the RAF.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 They were just trying to get people to sign on for five years.

F1189 Ah right, I //see uh-huh,//

M1193 //That was the main thing.//

F1189 uh-huh. So you, you generally enjoyed it then? //How much//

M1193 //Oh yeah.//

F1189 time did you spend reading do you think, as a serviceman? What kind of day wou-would you do it at?

M1193 Well,

F1189 Time of day I meant.

M1193 we didn't have a lot of time. Because you're either, during the day itself, it's mainly at night

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I would say we'd ehm, and while I was doing my square-bashing, the two months that you have, you're all in barracks

F1189 Mm. //Mmhm.//

M1193 //of twenty, thirty people// and you didn't really have any, much time there.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm and I didn't drink alcohol at that particular time so I didn't go to the Naafi very often. Ehm. We didn't, in Germany we, in our, in our spare time, we worked shift work, erm because as, as a, a wireless operator,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 we used to sit and listen to the Ger- eh the Russian

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Morse code. And that was a shift. So we used to work two days on, two days off. In our two days off we probably did a bit of sport, I used, I took up fencing for a while.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And ehm that took up a bit of time and then we... you could walk into the local township which was just a wee village really. In fact, we weren't all that far from Belsen. Er you could walk up the road to Belsen if you wanted. Ehm. Yeah, I enjoyed the, walking around the area probably.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Er the Naafi was a bit better over there. But ehm the Germans certainly looked after them. The soldiers. Erm it was a German camp //we lived in.//

F1189 //Mmhm.// Ah right, I see. Now, did you get sent any kind of news from home, newspapers or magazines?

M1193 Oh yeah, I used to get letters from home //and ehm,//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 ehm of course it wasn't the same news connection like you can get now but

F1189 Mm.

M1193 it was letters we, we sort of got. Ehm, I used to write home er to my, my aunt, my grandmother and that //sort of thing.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.// //Mmhm.//

M1193 //Friends at home.//

F1189 Did they send the, you any of the, the Bulletin for example or,

M1193 Sorry?

F1189 The Bulletin, for example, or any of the, the newspapers from Scotland?

M1193 Er oh I I used to get the, was it the Sunday Express?

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Yeah, I used to get the Sunday Express

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 sent out.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And ehm the football results //and that sort of thing.//


M1193 And read what's going on.

F1189 Mmhm. Now you mentioned Oor Wullie and the Broons //back there.//

M1193 //Oh yeah.//

F1189 Do you recall them from the annuals?

M1193 Yeah, well, I do yeah.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I didn't get the comics, I don't think.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Well, I might have got the Beano.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 What was it, the Beano and the Dandy, weren't there two?

F1189 There were two. //Yes uh-huh.//

M1193 //Yeah, but we, we weren't// allowed both, we //had to get one//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 or the other. //Now//

F1189 //[laugh]//

M1193 Of course we used to swap them.

F1189 Right. //Uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 //A, a lot of swapping//

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 eh with each other.

F1189 Was that with //your brother?//

M1193 //I said// Ì've got the Beano', he says Òkay, you get the Dandy and then //we'll swap'.//

F1189 //Uh-huh// uh-huh.

M1193 That sort of thing. //Ehm.//

F1189 //That makes sense.// [laugh]

M1193 Well, yeah.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And eh

F1189 Did you ever swap them with your school friends?

M1193 Yeah, well, we did that. There was quite a bit of that //went on.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 Ehm. Now I come to think about it, you're probably right, we did. Yeah, cause I had a few schoolfriends who lived nearby //in eh//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 fact I had one schoolfriend who ehm, he got the American Superman and Batman comics which we certainly couldn't get //in Britain, so//


M1193 that was a big bonus. I used to read those. //Superman,//


M1193 Batman and all those ones. I, I used to quite enjoy those comics.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 You always learned something from them.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 But ehm

F1189 What kind of thing did you learn from them?

M1193 Oh well, I suppose, it was the way, the way the, the way the people lived, what they did, you know.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 The Broons was always a first-class example of... it's rather like I, I read the comics we've got here,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 like [laugh] oh Calvin and, Calvin and Hobbes and [inaudible].

F1189 Oh I see, you've got Hagar the Horrible //there too which is,//

M1193 //Yeah [laugh].//

F1189 it's a good old traditional one.

M1193 Peanuts.

F1189 And Peanuts as well? //Uh-huh.//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 Now, what's that you've got there? Is that the //Otago Daily News?//

M1193 //That's the Otago Daily// er, the what do they call it? The Otago Daily //Times.//

F1189 //Daily Times.// Uh-huh.

M1193 Well um I do the crosswords, I try to do the crosswords.

F1189 Uh-huh. You said you got the Sunday Express then which would have been a

M1193 Yeah. It ehm

F1189 a weekly paper //erm, sent out to you.//

M1193 //it came out on Sunday,// //well,//

F1189 //Uh-huh// //uh-huh.//

M1193 //Sunday Express, yeah.// It's the weekend paper.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Of course it gave all the information //of what was going on.//


M1193 Ehm, but of course then I went to Ceylon.

F1189 Oh right, so you moved from Germany.

M1193 Yes. [laugh]

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 I was there for eight, eight and half years. And it was similar then, I got the Reader's Digest //and ehm//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 We didn't have a library at all. So that was...

F1189 Now what took you to Ceylon?

M1193 Oh my horticultural //and so I//

F1189 //Right, so this was,//

M1193 became a tea planter.

F1189 uh-huh now this was after you came out the, the airforce.

M1193 Yeah, I went to college

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I finished my eh not quite finished my horticultural training. And through my aunt again, //she got//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 me, she worked, her firm were accountants //for//

F1189 //Mm// //mmhm.//

M1193 //er tea plantations// in Malaysia and Ceylon and India. Ehm I got the chance to go, in fact I had a choice to go to India, Ceylon, ehm Malaysia.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Well, Malaya, as it was called in those days.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 With all the strife... I wanted to go to Malaya.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 But with all the strife there they [laugh], they sort of um said, `No, I don't think that would be a good place to go' so

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 I went to Ceylon.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 And

F1189 Was that a Scottish company who owned //these plantations?//

M1193 //No, it was, it was English.// //It was an English company.//

F1189 //Was it?// //Uh-huh.//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 Can you remember the name of it?

M1193 Yes, it was the [inaudible] tea and rubber estate.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 And the agents were Harrisons and Crossfield

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 in London.

F1189 Now, that's quite an exciting sort of career //choice really.//

M1193 //Oh yeah.// That was //probably the best//

F1189 //Ehm// mmhm.

M1193 i-i-it was probably the best, not the best time of my life but it was //certainly//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 [inaudible] it spread my, you know, ideas and ehm on //life.//


M1193 And, of course I got to mix with not just Scottish people, I mean that's the same in the RAF, I, I met er Welshmen, Irishmen //Englishmen.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 I became very friends with an English chap. And we were together for the two years we were there so //it was good.//


M1193 Eh when I went to Ceylon of course it's a completely different sort of Somerset Maugham-type set-up. Oh yeah, I used to read his books.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And ehm it was a thoroughly enjoyable time. //That's where Jan and I met.//

F1189 //Mm.// Mmhm.

M1193 She was a nurse

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 in the European hospital.

F1189 Now, did you want to emigrate then? Was that always part of your life //plan?//

M1193 //Well, you see, that's,// I don't, whether I'm peculiar, my family, but I wanted to go and see how other people lived. And I've always been nosy in that respect. But ehm and Jan's obviously been the same because she came out to Ceylon.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Al-although she came out for oth- because of the climate. The climate, I wasn't particularly worried about that, the climate at that time.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It's ehm, and it developed from there, I ehm I, I've, I think I had The Reader's Digest omnibus editions then.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I used to get them directed to, to me. Time magazine. Oh and ehm National Geographic, I got when I was in Ceylon. And eh I did a, a lot of reading then, various books //and eh//

F1189 //mm//

M1193 detective books, `Who-done-it's and ehm, //through the//

F1189 //[inaudible]//

M1193 through the Reader's Di- through the Reader's Digest, //of course.//

F1189 //Mm// mmhm.

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 Can you recall any of the, these are works of fiction then?

M1193 Yeah, I did, I read a lot of fiction. //Ehm.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 What do you call that eh, oh what's the name, that, that woman author?

F1189 Agatha Christie?

M1193 Yeah, that's the one, yeah, //Agatha Christie,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 yeah, that's right. I read a lot of hers.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I started to re-read, like, as you say, `Red Gauntlet' and `Thirty-Nine //Steps'//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 and those books. Ehm.

F1189 Had you taken any of your, your own books with you to Ceylon?

M1193 Ehm now, there's a question. I can't honestly remember. I think I might have. But what they were would be a mystery, erm eh, I wouldn't, no I don't think I could put a name //to,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 to most of them but it's possible I could have done.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 I'm just wondering if you had some real favourites, ones that meant something to you that you, you took with you.

M1193 Well, a lot of the, some of the ones I got when I was in the Boys' Brigade, //ehm,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 for best all-round boy and things like that, I got ehm [inaudible] They would all be Sir Walter Scott's books mainly because I- and ehm I can't just think off-hand.

F1189 Oh so you got some of the Scott as ehm Boys' Brigade presents, //did you?//

M1193 //Oh yeah.// Yeah I-I- I also got ehm Scott of the Arctic, what was his name ehm

F1189 The explorer?

M1193 Hmm? //Yeah, explorer, yeah [laugh].//

F1189 //The explorer mm mmhm.//

M1193 That one must be in the other room //then.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 Ehm. Yeah, I was quite proud of

F1189 Mm.

M1193 some of those things I got //[?]while I was a Lifeboy[/?]. Oh they//

F1189 //Yeah, so you should be.// //Uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 //go back a long while.// Eh I looked at one the other day there, it's dated nineteen //forty-four.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 Hell's teeth. [laugh]

F1189 Well, maybe we could have a wee look at them at the end, that would //be interesting.//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 Ehm. //Can I ask//

M1193 //Oh yes.//

F1189 you, though, if you ever took a Bible with you?

M1193 Oh yes, well, I did, yeah, //I always had a//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 Bible with me, //you're quite right.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 Yes, I always carried the Bible.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm, certainly in those days. [throat] Not so much, eh I did have one in Ceylon but I didn't really go to church in Ceylon.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And there was a Presbyterian church in the village

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 where, where I was

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 stationed. But eh I don't know, I got out of the habit. [laugh] Or I may have got fed up with the habit, I'm not //quite sure.//

F1189 //Mm.// Do you think that was being away from home that did that?

M1193 Yeah i-it-it seems to, whether I've, you know in your back of your mind, without even thinking about it you think oh well, I don't have to do that any more. And eh that's possibly true because I never seemed to miss it.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I don't remember missing it.

F1189 Well, what about when you were in the RAF then? Were there church services //and things//

M1193 //No.//

F1189 there, no? No.

M1193 Well, no, when I was, I was down in England doing my square-bashing //as we call it.//

F1189 //Mm// mmhm.

M1193 We had to go to church.

F1189 Oh right [laugh].

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 Is that more of the discipline [laugh]?

M1193 Well, I got friendly with a, a bloke who was actually in the S- in the Salvation Army.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I didn't realise that until, till we were in town once. There's the, the Salvation Army band //pumping away there.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm// mm.

M1193 [laugh] And there he was too. I didn't realise he was in the Salvation Army. But yes ehm, we went to church but it was an English church

F1189 Mm.

M1193 we had to go to.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Not the High English but, //you know, the,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 just an ordinary church, really.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I quite enjoyed that too. I-, I've always been interested in seeing what other people do

F1189 Mm.

M1193 other [?]tacks[/?] and ehm in, when I was in Ceylon I certainly did a fair bit of... the peculiar British Raj instinct that you're not allowed to fraternize with the locals and ehm I wasn't even allowed to get too friendly with, with them at all. So if you happened to meet. I was there for four years. That was the first tour. During that time you weren't allowed to own a car. You weren't allowed to get too friendly with any of the fair sex. So it's, it was just frowned upon.

F1189 How did you live when you were in Ceylon? //then?//

M1193 //Oh yeah,// very, very ehm, we had a bungalow //each.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 With

F1189 Your own bungalow then?

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 Very nice.

M1193 Each.

F1189 Because, what age were you? You must have been still //quite young.//

M1193 //Twenty-three,// //twenty-four.//


M1193 When I went there. Twenty-three. //Yeah,//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 probably about twenty three. And servants by the mile.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Even had someone to go and get your mail for you. You didn't have to go and pick up your own. And cooks,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 gardeners. Ehm.

F1189 And was there a, a, a British club?

M1193 Oh yes, very much so. Oh well, there was a, a local club.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm, it was mixed in those days but, but it was originally, no, it was, it was all European.

F1189 Mm mmhm.

M1193 There was a European-only club in Colombo.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm but that's of course, is all gone now. And we had our own hospital.

F1189 Right. Where, where you met your wife who, who was a nurse.

M1193 Yeah. //I met her through,//

F1189 //Is that right [laugh]?//

M1193 no, I wasn't in the hospital, I just met her through a friend.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 And ehm

F1189 I wondered whether perhaps the, the club, the clubhouse had a library or a //reading room?//

M1193 //No.//

F1189 Hm.

M1193 If it did, it must have hidden it somewhere //because I, I couldn't find it. [laugh]//

F1189 //Mm [laugh].//

M1193 Ehm. No, it was purely a club where you, we had tennis courts and we played rugby.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Eh we had a snooker room, //played snooker//

F1189 //Mmhm.// //Mm.//

M1193 //or pool or whatever you wanted to do.// Drinking obviously and eh and you can get a meal in some of them.

F1189 Mmhm ehm men and women would, would come in there then?

M1193 Ehm women were allowed there after a certain time of night, or was it before? [laugh]

F1189 Oh right, so it was //a bit of a boys' own then, wasn't it? [laugh].//

M1193 //It was, it was pretty, yeah it was to start with.//

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 It was one of those things where you called your boss `sir' until nine o'clock and then you could call him what you liked.

F1189 [laugh] //Uh-huh.//

M1193 //So it was,// it was still a bit of the eh the old... in fact we left in sixty-five to come here.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And ehm that was just about the end of it.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm. We were due to go home on my, after a second tour,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 ehm but the Ceylon government wouldn't allow them to send money to UK to pay us. So

F1189 It's had a fairly rocky political history, //Ceylon.//

M1193 //It has.// It's a beautiful, beautiful

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm place, really.

F1189 Mm. Or Sri Lanka, I //suppose, as we should call it.//

M1193 //Oh yes, Sri Lanka, yeah, as you say.//

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But I wouldn't recognise it if I went back. //Colombo//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 only had three, three main //hotels, I think, when I was there.//

F1189 //Mm mm mmhm.//

M1193 Now it's got God knows how many.

F1189 Ah it's a tourist spot //now.//

M1193 //It er//

F1189 I'm interested that you got all these Reader's Digest books and you say as well, you think you had a few of your own ones, //the Boys'//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 Brigade books. The ones that were meaningful //to you.//

M1193 //I've probably still got// some of them.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 Mm.

F1189 Uh-huh ehm.

M1193 But I've ehm I carted them all out here.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Well, some of the //ones I got when I//


M1193 was in Ceylon.

F1189 Now, that's interesting that you've, that you've taken these books with //you on the//

M1193 //I-,// //yeah.//

F1189 //journey that you've made.//

M1193 Well, yeah because I res-, I sort of respect books. //I've go-//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 got a lot of

F1189 Mm.

M1193 time for them and ehm Janet's a profuse reader, she reads a lot, probably more than me. [laugh]

F1189 Now did you get married while you were,

M1193 We were married //in Ceylon, yeah.//

F1189 //you were in Sri Lanka?// Yeah.

M1193 Or Sri Lanka //if you want to call it,//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 yes, we were married there in

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 sixty-four.

F1189 Mmhm. And that was during your second tour, //you say?//

M1193 //Yep.//

F1189 Did you come back to the UK after your first one?

M1193 Er ah yeah, after my first tour I went back to the UK and ehm We were there er we got six months' leave,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 for the first, you know, //for the tour.//


M1193 Paid leave, so I tho- I, I, I thought I'd be bored sick but ehm I managed to pass the time. [laugh]

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Went up to Shetland.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I spent, yeah, one of the chaps I was friendly with in, in Sri Lanka, he, his father was a doctor.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 in Lerwick

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 or Lerwick. So I stayed with them for a week, ten days.

F1189 So you came back and were a bit of a tourist really in your, your own //country.//

M1193 //Yeah.// //I've always//

F1189 //[laugh]//

M1193 ehm had a bit of restless feet. //If I//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 had the money I'd be touring the world now, I must admit.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 It would be, I'm just waiting to win the lotto for a couple of million bucks. //[laugh] [inaudible].//

F1189 //[laugh]// Get in the queue then. //[laugh]//

M1193 //Yeah, that's about right.//

F1189 Now, how did you get back from eh Sri Lanka to the UK at that time?

M1193 Oh eh by ship.

F1189 Right.

M1193 That's a point, yeah, I went by ship.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 In three weeks, first class. It was ehm single cabins so we, we were pretty well looked //after, I must say oh yeah.//

F1189 //I think you were uh-huh uh-huh//

M1193 And we'd a, we'd a we'd a friend I went, chap I went over to Sri Lanka with. //We both//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 came back together.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And so we had a pretty good time on board ship.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But ehm //On the P&O.//

F1189 //Did you have much time to read// on the ship?

M1193 Probably not, we were probably too busy [?]playing something[/?] or [laugh] I don't know but ehm I probably drank more then.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It's one of the things when you go out to those areas. We were never excessive, //we just...//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 and you made friends with people on board ship. Met a lot of eh girls who were actually coming back from Australia, ehm on their OE or Overseas Experience or whatever you call it.

F1189 I'm very interested in this OE concept. Ehm. I'd never heard of it before. //And everyone I've met has mentioned it.//

M1193 //oh yeah, I don't suppose I had until I came// Yeah.

F1189 And what do you think, I mean it's sort of It has hidden meanings, I think, to me. //The notion that//

M1193 //I think it's a great thing,// //myself.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I, I, we've tried to get both our girls to.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 They've been to Australia, and //that sort of thing, but//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 Oh my eldest one's been to UK.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But ehm they don't seem to have the same wanderlust that Janet and I have.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Er however, they might, they might get there yet.

F1189 Mmhm. Do you think it's important ehm //if you grow up//

M1193 //I think it is, yeah.//

F1189 in somewhere like New Zealand that's, that's thought of as very far away from, from an old European centre,

M1193 I, well //that's my//

F1189 //to// have that //experience?//

M1193 //thoughts on it.// I think you've really got to expand. Especially now, the world's so small.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 You've really got to expand your horizons and see how other people live.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm I think most of, It took Jan and I until two years ago to go to Australia on holiday. I'd rather go to Rarotonga or Fiji or that sort //of thing,//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 see something different.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Although we enjoyed our holiday in Bris- in Brisbane.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm, but I would- I'm not so keen to go back.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I'd go back to Rarotonga.

F1189 mmhm //Right.//

M1193 //Sit// on the beach and //do nothing.//

F1189 //Sounds lovely,// yeah. //Do you read//

M1193 //Well Rarotonga is-//

F1189 on holiday then, David? //Is that//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 Do you? Right.

M1193 I must admit the last couple of years I haven't really read all that much, ehm, I had bypass surgery

F1189 Mm.

M1193 four, three and a half years ago. Ehm. But eh i-i-, it slowed me down to a certain extent.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 My concentration's not quite the same as it used to be.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And I tend to get up and put things down and [laugh] I find, I find the book's expired by the time I'm half-way through.

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 So I must, I haven't been in the library for oh this year anyway. Probably part of last year.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But I still read eh now I don't get Time magazine and I don't get National Geographic, mainly because they're so expensive nowadays and ehm I still get the odd Reader's Digest magazine. //I,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I read the paper now more than I //used to.//

F1189 //Hmm// Mmhm.

M1193 And

F1189 Do you get that every day?

M1193 Yeah, this is a daily paper, //yeah, it//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 comes

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 delivered.

F1189 Now, if I can go back to, you obviously chose to go back to Sri Lanka so you would have had that

M1193 Yes.

F1189 three week...

M1193 I would still have been, well not there now obviously //but ehm//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 it was just the second

F1189 Mm.

M1193 tour when Jan and //I got married and ehm//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 we were expecting our first child.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 and it was where do we go home? I could have gone back to UK for my, it'd be four months' leave, I think, //you got the second tour.//


M1193 Ehm and then come back to Ceylon again. But the things were changing a bit over there and we decided to, it was either come out here or go back to UK and we neither of us were too keen on the cold weather //by this stage.//

F1189 //[laugh]// Uh-huh.

M1193 And my father and stepmother and

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 sister had come out here in fifty-four.

F1189 Ah right uh-huh.

M1193 I hadn't seen my father for,

F1189 Mm mmhm.

M1193 well, since he left, it'd be fifteen, sixteen years. So we, we thought oh well, we'll come out here, which didn't suit the people at home very well so

F1189 Was your grandmother still alive?

M1193 No, she was dead. But my aunt was.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm it's probably something I've regretted,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm, because she died before I could get back again to see //her.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 Now, on all these trips backwards and forwards, the UK and then coming here to New Zealand, //did you,//

M1193 //Oh I came direct// from Ceylon to here.

F1189 did you bring your books with you //on all those trips?//

M1193 //Oh yes.//

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 Well a lot of those //Reader's//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 Digest books came //from...//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 And //eh oh yeah, they have, yeah.//

F1189 //So they, they've been round the world really.//

M1193 Yes, well, I suppose books have.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And ehm, but unfortunately my father died before we got here.

F1189 Oh.

M1193 So that was,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 he died in November, we came here in January,

F1189 Mmhm. //In nineteen//

M1193 //before//

F1189 sixty-five, //did you say?//

M1193 //Yeah, he// he died in sixty-four.

F1189 Uh-huh. //That was, that was unfortunate.//

M1193 //So that was a bit of a//

F1189 Mm.

M1193 a bit of a crunch for everyone. //And ehm//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 But really, we've often talked about it, I don't think we've any regrets about coming out //here.//

F1189 //Mm.// Did you ever consider anywhere else other than New Zealand?

M1193 Yeah, well I- probably if I hadn't been married I'd have gone to either Kenya or erm Malaysia.

F1189 And you would've stayed in tea planting?

M1193 Yeah, I'd have stayed in tea planting, //yeah.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 Because eh tea planting was just sort of beginning in Kenya at that time.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 [throat] I didn't really want to go to India.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 My father had spent half the war in India.

F1189 Mm. So had heard something about India then? //Or had you read anything?//

M1193 //No, it's just// eh it was too big.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It ehm I thought, it was a vague idea we or I had that ehm I might have gone to Kenya. They were looking for planters with a bit of experience at that time.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I see it's going quite well in Kenya now. They're still, they're growing tea properly now.

F1189 Did lots of Scots become tea planters, were there lots of //them in Sri Lanka?//

M1193 //Oh yes.// Yeah. //Th-th-they prefer-//

F1189 //Proportionately how much?//

M1193 they preferred us to the English, there's no question about that.

F1189 Uh-huh. Now, why is that?

M1193 Well, where we were there was three Scots people on, on one of the, on the estate I was on, ehm, in, we lived in a district //called//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 [?]Bajara[/?].

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm, there was quite a number of estates there. But in, in the well, put it this way, we had a Scottish rugby against England every year.

F1189 [laugh] Uh-huh.

M1193 Eh we always could produce fifteen Scots whereas the English were struggling to get their

F1189 Mm.

M1193 fifteen. So in the area we were, yeah, there was quite a lot of Scottish people.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I think an awful lot of the estates were opened up by Scotsmen.

F1189 Right.

M1193 Ehm I've read the history of a few of them and eh //eh...//

F1189 //Have you?// //Have you done that//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 recently or did //did you do that when you were there? Mm//

M1193 //No, no I did that when I was there.//

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Because we-we-, we'd also to learn the language

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Oh the Tamil language //which was the//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 language the, the workers //ehm,//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 well, they were Indian Tamil. //Indian, yeah.//

F1189 //Mm.// Now how did you do that? Did you have to attend classes or...?

M1193 No, we go- it's like everything, you had to read it, got a book on Tamil, a phrasebook.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 And then we'd to go and do a, a verbal

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm examination on it each

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 conversation, a thing like this. And ehm

F1189 So did you ehm how did you get your hands on the histories of of of the tea planting in that part of the world?

M1193 Well that was a bit of hand-me-down things really, it was [throat] I spoke to a couple of the older planters there and I said I'd like to //read up on the history of this.//


M1193 And ehm I got, I lent a lot of books //from people over there.//

F1189 //Mmhm mmhm mmhm.//

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 Did you do that generally for books amongst that community of people at the time? Did you //loan or swap?//

M1193 //I did- I didn't eh// eh [exhale] not consciously, I just I, I got, I've got a book on eh ehm growing of tea and so ehm and that's, I've read that. But er it's, a lot of it's hand-me-down stuff, you know, from those

F1189 Right, so, so you were given them but you never gave them back? [laugh]

M1193 A lot of the planters that [throat] when I were there, when I was there, we were really coming to the end of the tea plantation system,

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 as they knew if because ehm there was no, cause there were a lot of ehm indigenous planters there too.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Whereas ten years before I went there [throat] pardon me, there wouldn't have been any. //They would all//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 be European of some kind, Dutch or British or ehm whatever. //It was changing rapidly.//

F1189 //Have you ever rea-// yeah, have you ever read erm Paul Scott's novels about the end of the Raj in India?

M1193 No, I don't think I have. I've heard of it but no, //I haven't read that.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 It's, I've probably read more on the Raj, I've probably seen, since tel-television became popular, //but we//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 always watch

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 those programmes on telly,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm okay, that might not be quite so authen- they might be more dramatic than //authentic but ehm//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 it gives you a great insight //as to//

F1189 //Mmhm.// //So what kind of television//

M1193 //how things progress.//

F1189 programmes would they be that you've liked to watch in that area?

M1193 Well I must admit Jan and I, we al- we always watch Elizabethan,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 all the programmes we've had on that.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 The Boleyn girls, Henry the Eighth,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 recent ones.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. Yeah, they're, I suppose, diverging a bit.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 What's that, that woman's name, Gabaldon, is it? Do, do you know her? //The author?//

F1189 //No I don't.// Tell me about that.

M1193 Oh well, she, she wrote, [third speaker clarifies name] Diane Gabaldon Gabaldon or something, I've got one there.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 She wrote ehm books about early America through the eyes of someone ehm Scottish chap who was, who was the Jacobite rebellion. For some unknown reason they, no she went through the barrier, went back in time.

F1189 Ah right, now I think I have //heard of these.//

M1193 //Yeah and// //she married//


M1193 this chap.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 He was, he was living in that particular time but she, she went through the...

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And there's a series of books she wrote. And they're marvellous books. They're a big, great big thick things, five or six hundred //pages.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 And they're all based on fact as far as the actual historical //part of it goes.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 And eh they're very very very good books.

F1189 So you've particularly enjoyed them?

M1193 I did, yeah, they're great books.

F1189 Where do you get them from, David?

M1193 Ehm we bought them.

F1189 Right.

M1193 We had originally got them from the library, I think.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And got them given to us,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I think, if I remember rightly. But we've read most of those.

F1189 Mmhm so a bit of everything.

M1193 Yeah, well, it's, it's... but I'm not a great fan for I don't like scientific books, I've never been a fan, outer space or, what's, what's up there doesn't interest me. Mm.

F1189 Now before you came to New Zealand ehm had you read anything about this country?

M1193 Ah the only, the only part I got about, was when Dad wrote home about it.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 He was absolutely eh flabbergasted, he actually came to Mosgiel. Ehm my stepmother, his aunt lived in Mosgiel. //And they were//

F1189 //Mmhm// //mmhm.//

M1193 //quite a sort of// well-known family in //the area.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 But he was absolutely flabbergasted, he came down to Gordon Road and there was absolutely nothing there [laugh].

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And he was

F1189 Was your stepmother a New Zealander then? Or?

M1193 No.

F1189 No, just you //had family here.//

M1193 //She// //she was born in England.//

F1189 //Mm mm hmm.//

M1193 Eh but she lived all her //life in Scotland.//


M1193 Her father, her family lived in Scotland.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It was ehm her mother's sister //married.//

F1189 //Ah right,// I see uh-huh.

M1193 He, this chap was a seaman, he was a

F1189 Mm.

M1193 he was a skipper //of some form,//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 I'm not a hundred per cent sure. Eh he was a New Zealander, he came out here.

F1189 So did your, your father form an impression about New Zealand then? //It was favourable//

M1193 //Yeah, yeah.//

F1189 or otherwise.

M1193 But he said, he said `What the hell have I come to?'

F1189 [laugh] So it wasn't favourable? [laugh]

M1193 I don't think he-, to be honest, I don't think he settled at all.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 To be truthful eh he ehm I think his, his health wasn't particularly ehm brilliant. He had heart problems. That's probably where I get the hereditary part of it. Er that's what he di-died of just before we came here.

F1189 So, you couldn't have had an entirely, from what you'd read anyway in letters, an entirely //positive image//

M1193 //Not, not,//

F1189 of where you were //coming to.//

M1193 //Not really.// I mean I think we came, as I said it's always been my sort of passion //just//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 to see what

F1189 See it for yourself.

M1193 Yeah, the other thing was of course we thought oh yeah we could hop off back to UK but it wasn't //quite as easy as that. [laugh]//

F1189 //[laugh]//

M1193 Ehm, but I don't think I've, I've never really had any regrets. But it's the old story, wh-when you emigrate it's always us that have got to go home. They don't come out here. My sister wouldn't fly out here. My brother's been out once I must admit but ehm if we want to see them it's basically we've got to go home.

F1189 Now why do you think that is? Why do you think that happened?

M1193 Oh I've thought about it but I've never really... whether it's they can't be bothered getting off their bum and coming out here or whether it's the money wise. I don't think it's money because my brother and sister are pretty well-off I would imagine. Ehm. So it makes you think they don't particularly want to, that's [laugh] as you get down to, you get down to it, that's probably the thing.

F1189 On the other hand though, you seem to have wanted to travel so

M1193 Well I've //always//

F1189 //Would you say that's// maybe the difference? //Those who stay home, yeah.//

M1193 //Yeah, I've always wanted to travel, I must admit.// I didn't think twice about going to Ceylon, I didn't even think of what the repercussions would be, I just wanted to go. And worry about it when I got there ehm.

F1189 Have you ever been homesick?

M1193 Oh the odd occasion I think, yes. Ehm I was homesick when my grandmother died I must admit. And also when Peggy died. Ehm it just wasn't opportune for us. When, when my grandmother died I was just two years into my tour of Ceylon. Ehm I wouldn't have been allowed.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I suppo-, if I'd asked them, I'd have gone home but there again, in nineteen fifty-odd, it, flights and flying wasn't quite the same.

F1189 Mmhm. Now how did you get here?

M1193 Uh well we came, we flew.

F1189 Now that was exciting. //even in nineteen sixty-five.//

M1193 //Yeah [laugh].// //It was exciting alright.//

F1189 //[laugh]//

M1193 We arrived in Singapore and ehm we were staying in Raffles hotel. Went to buy a drink. So I gave him a travellers' cheques, he said Ì can't cash those'. But I looked at it, payable in New Zealand only. So we'd no money.

F1189 No drink. //[laugh]//

M1193 //No, we got the drink, we'd had the drink by this time.// I was going to get another one. Eh but I managed, I had some Ceylon money //which we//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 exchanged somehow or other, I can't remember all the ins and outs, but it rather shattered our our plans because we were going to buy us a few presents in Singapore, //but//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 didn't buy anything. So that was the first sort of hiccup.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But from then on we ehm, we did okay. Having not seen my stepmother for fifty odd years we seemed to, we settled in very well. Jan-.

F1189 I wanted to ask you about airports then cause that must have been your first experience of civilian airports //anyway?//

M1193 //Oh yes.// Yeah, it was a bit.

F1189 Ehm can you remember if they, they sold books in airports at that time?

M1193 At Singapore they probably would.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 Ehm but we came I think it was, was it Darwin, I think we landed [laugh] and Darwin was only a tin shack. //[third speaker adds that it was the middle of the night]//

F1189 //[laugh]//

M1193 And then we went from there to

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 to Sydney it //was in//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 in the end.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I would imagine there probably was, erm. Well there'd be a newspaper I would imagine. //You'd be able to get a//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 newspaper I would think.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 [throat]

F1189 Do you recall reading anything on that trip?

M1193 Hmm?

F1189 On that, that flying trip, do you recall reading anything? //Or taking a book with you?//

M1193 //Oh well, there, I// probably read the, the usual books they passed around which, probably mainly Time magazine or

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 National Geographic

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 in those days, which they passed around.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Or I might have read something on Australia or //something, or//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 probably New Zealand maybe to some extent.

F1189 Mmhm. Yes uh-huh did you get any emigration literature?

M1193 Oh I think they were pretty good at giving you what was happening in the country or //what would//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 be in the country but ehm not the way it is nowadays.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 You didn't, you don't get, advertising brochures //like//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 you do now.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 [throat] Not that I can remember of anyway.

F1189 I just wondered if they gave you any pamphlets about what to //expect when you got here.//

M1193 //What to do, where to go.// I don't think they did in those days. We were in a DC, whatever it was,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 number one to ten, which one it was, I'm not sure. Ehm, no we, I wasn't really all that interested cause it was a, it was a pretty busy flight, //if I remember rightly.//

F1189 //Mm mm.// So you didn't really know what you were coming to?

M1193 Well not really, not really, we were ehm, we were probably better off than my father was when he arrived

F1189 Mm.

M1193 originally. Ehm of course they arrived by ship, of course eh they actually drove

F1189 Mm.

M1193 down from Auckland. Ehm. Eh.

F1189 Did you always know you were coming to this area, to Otago?

M1193 No. //No.//

F1189 //You didn't.//

M1193 We arrived in ehm Christchurch, //and ehm//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 that's where our first baby was born in //Christchurch.//

F1189 //Right,// I see uh-huh.

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 And did you find work there or had //you lined that//

M1193 //I did.//

F1189 up before?

M1193 No, I hadn't lined anything up. //No.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 That was what, that was a bit ehm up in the air, my father was going to arrange stuff but of course he couldn't.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 He wasn't there.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And ehm I thought his friend was going to carry on and [inaudible] but he obviously didn't so I didn't really know. I, I just started looking myself.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But it wasn't too difficult to get work.

F1189 Mmhm. Well, what kind of work did //you get, David?//

M1193 //Well, I// I, I took a eh job as a traveller cause then again I thought oh I'll see a bit of the country [laugh] while, eh for free. //basically.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 And I stayed, I was in Christchurch for a while. Er we rented a house there and ehm then I got a transfer down to Dunedin.

F1189 Right, so how long was that before you got transferred down?

M1193 Oh.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 th- two, three years //sixty-seven, was it?//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 [third speaker confirms details] Yeah.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 sixty-six maybe, thereabouts anyway. And then that's when my second daughter //was born.//

F1189 //Mmhm// mmhm. Now, what appealed to you then, cause you stayed, what appealed to you about New Zealand?

M1193 Well, I liked this area. We moved out here from Dunedin on purpose, ehm because I didn't like to work and live in the sort of same ehm... In those days the old south road

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 was quite different from, well you can still see, you can still come round the old road

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 to Dunedin. //And ehm//

F1189 //I should just say that// this, this is, Mosgiel's inland ehm Ot-Otago. //er.//

M1193 //Well, it is, it's// but I knew Dad and Mum had lived here. They had lived here for

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 four, five years, I think.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Before they moved to Invercargill.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 So in the end we came out here and

F1189 Mmhm. Now the-this part of New Zealand, really, has many a Scottish

M1193 Oh, it has. //yeah,//

F1189 //associations.//

M1193 there's a lot of Scots people live here, yeah. Ehm.

F1189 Was that in any way an a-an attraction for you?

M1193 No, I think the main attraction probably was the fact that Dad, they had lived here.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 And I had connections here through them because they're cousins or ehm second cousins. //or whatever.//

F1189 //Ah right, I see.//

M1193 And they were uh they were always...

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 And my mother's, well probably the best friend she had,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 in this area, they were still living here.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 They owned a shop.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 which Mum worked in.

F1189 So that made things easier?

M1193 Oh it made it a lot easier, very, very helpful people. Ehm, especially the lady, she was extre-extremely good to us and the kids. Always brought presents and suchlike for the ki- children. Eh a very, very nice lady So we really had, and then we fitted in pretty well.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We even- we, the kids lived more or less rather like me, across the road from the school.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm, eh the high school was pretty close by, the Taieri High School. So they, everything revolved round, we didn't have to go into Dunedin

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm for anything really. The shops were all, clothing shops, shoe shops, we don't have a proper shoe shop but we've got a sort of ehm one of the, one of those modern shoe shops.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Eh.

F1189 Now there used to be a wool mill out here at, at //Mosgiel?//

M1193 //Mm sorry?//

F1189 There used to be a wool mill out here at Mosgiel.

M1193 Oh there is, it's if you, oh, the, the, the old mill house is just up //there on your, on the other side of the road.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm mmhm mmhm mmhm.//

M1193 Ehm, yes, the Mosgiel wool mill, in fact I worked for them for a while.

F1189 Did you? What did you do?

M1193 Intern. I looked after the stock control,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm of the knitwear division.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But that went bust.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And then I, I finished working for the Mosgiel burgh council.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Before they amalgamated with Dunedin city council, so.... I enjoyed work- enjoyed working here. //And I wouldn't//

F1189 //Right, you//

M1193 particularly want to live anywhere else,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 in, you know, in Dun- in New Zealand, or even Dunedin for that matter. You get used to a place and where we are now I can walk everywhere I want to go. //Eh.//

F1189 //Well, that's// an advantage I think.

M1193 Well, you see //[inaudible]//

F1189 //New Zealanders are// awfully fond of //cars//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 I think. //[laugh]//

M1193 //Oh they are, far too fond of it.// //Ehm.//

F1189 //Now//

M1193 And I'm sure we all use the bus service //into Dunedin more frequently//

F1189 //Uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 than we used to.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. No, I've enjoyed it. //It's-.//

F1189 //So you've no regrets then?//

M1193 Oh it-it's the old usual thing, everyone has regrets like not, not being able to pick up the phone and s-say to your brother Ì'll see you in half an hour'. Ehm, but now with ehm the eh eh the internet and telexing, we telex, I telex my sister quite a lot. Texting, not telexing. [laugh]

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 But ehm

F1189 Now, how long was it then before you discovered the library in Dunedin `cause you, you've been a library user or you were in //Glasgow.//

M1193 //Well, I've al-// I've always known where the library was in //Dunedin.//


M1193 We used to go there. We didn't actually live in Dunedin itself for very long. Ehm. We moved out //to//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 eh to Mosgiel.

F1189 Well, I notice you've got a, //there's a branch//

M1193 //Oh, it's a good li-.//

F1189 library here, isn't

M1193 Yeah, well that's where I used to, they used to, what they call the, the Mosgiel burgh council //sort of//

F1189 //uh-huh//

M1193 owned that, //built that library.//

F1189 //Uh-huh uh-huh.// //I might go round and//

M1193 //It's//

F1189 and have a wee //look at it.//

M1193 //Oh it's a nice library,//

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 beautiful place.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 So did you join there //fairly quickly?//

M1193 //Yeah, oh yeah, I'm a member of,// well, I've been there for a long time.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 We always made sure the children //both,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 they all read now and they always used to read when they were younger. And I think they still do.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 How did you find what was on offer in, in the Mosgiel library then compared to what you'd been used to in the UK?

M1193 I think, funnily enough I, I think the system's just the same really. You get fiction, you get non-fiction, history. Ehm. //It was//

F1189 //Did you carry on// reading much the same things that you had?

M1193 Yes I probably did. Ehm probably more so, `cause I got [throat] more involved with the sort of history. A lot of the stuff I used, that we've watched on telly, I thought, hell, I must read a bit more about that.

F1189 So this is British history then?

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 Right.

M1193 I've not really been interested too much in, I've read a bit about New Zealand history th-that's not, I've got ehm a couple of good books on New Zealand ehm history.

F1189 Do you own them, David?

M1193 Yeah, yeah cha- one by a chap, King,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 who just, he died not long after he'd written the book.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I haven't read it all yet. //It's a,//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 It's a good book.

F1189 Oh so that was something you got recently?

M1193 Yeah, I would oh I got it as a Christmas or birthday present //a couple of years ago.//

F1189 //Right uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 Ehm, but those are the bits an-.

F1189 So where do you feel your history fits in then?

M1193 My own personal history?

F1189 Uh-huh. Is that why you're still keener to read about British history?

M1193 Well, I think as one gets older we tend to think Ì'd like to know where I came from'.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 Ehm, it's a very, very, not only is it really difficult //but it's//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 very expensive. I've got onto the Scottish, you know, archaeological people and eh what do they call themselves? //Yeah.//

F1189 //Oh, Scotland's People?// Mm.

M1193 And, hell it's expensive.

F1189 Mmhm it is, yes.

M1193 Forty pounds here and fifty pounds there.

F1189 Mmhm. Have you read anything at all about researching your family tree?

M1193 I don't, yeah well I, there is, there is a Scottish ehm thing on the internet.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I read it for a while but I thought, hell this is going to cost a lot of money and then I didn't bother //after that.//

F1189 //Mm.// Right. //I just//

M1193 //Eh.//

F1189 wondered maybe if there'd been anything like that available for you in the library or the bookshops round about here, //books on how to do it.//

M1193 //Well, I must admit I haven't actually// gone into the library or er I haven't researched it enough possibly, concentrated on it //enough.//

F1189 //Mm.// Oh well there's //plenty of time yet [laugh].//

M1193 //I lose patience with those things.// //I haven't//

F1189 //Now.//

M1193 got the concentration.

F1189 When you came here did you, when you were in sales //tha-that's//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 what you were working in. Did you join any of the, the Scottish organisations //that are around here?//

M1193 //No.// No, it's, I regret not. Ehm. I don't know why I didn't to be honest. I just didn't particularly want to... I wasn't particularly keen on Scottish country dancing I must admit.

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 The Highland Fling doesn't [laugh]

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 or the Dashing White Sergeant.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 Ehm, no, I didn't really miss them that much.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm I didn't join the Burns club, an awful lot of Scottish people did,

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 eh even though I did play the bagpipes eh.

F1189 Did you? Now you never told me that. //[laugh]//

M1193 //Ah well those things [?]come[/?].// Up to Boys' Brigade standard. //That was, that//

F1189 //Uh-huh right.//

M1193 was my piping.

F1189 And no one came round and said `But you must join'? [laugh]

M1193 No they didn't, funnily enough, eh when I, when I ehm went into the Mosgiel burgh council, a few of the councillors,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 er one person in particular, a lady councillor, //she was the//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 president

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 of the Scottish Society out here. And she was most disappointed that I didn't [laugh] show any great interest in it.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 Ehm, I can't honestly tell you why to be truthful.

F1189 Well, I suppose

M1193 Well, Jan, my wife's English of course. //And ehm//

F1189 //Uh-huh.// Ah right uh-huh.

M1193 er.

F1189 Do you think your loyalties were divided?

M1193 I think they were. //I,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I thought, well I can't //be too//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 patriotic or patriotic. Ehm so I didn't bother //too much.//

F1189 //Mm.// What about Burns, I mean, what are your feelings //about that kind//

M1193 //Oh Robbie Burns.//

F1189 of ehm Scottish //literature?//

M1193 //Well, I-// I was always brought up,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 my old grandmother th-thought Burns was an absolute ehm rogue and rascal and whatever you want to call it. But, I read something recently, we had oh there's, it's the Burns centenary.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And I was reading, there again, in this local paper

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm that he was actually a very clever, er very well-educated bloke for his, his time. And I never even realised that.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 All I'd read about him was that he was a... all his debauchery and his drinking [laugh],

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 womanising, whatever he was, but ehm

F1189 Now would that have been a, a, is that something y-y-you just know you've heard? Or you, you actually recall reading about?

M1193 No, it's something I've heard.

F1189 Mm //mmhm.//

M1193 //Pure and simple.// It's a hand-me-down.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And when you're impressionable,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 it tends to stick.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 It's like the old drinking, Scottish drinking habit.

F1189 Yes.

M1193 Pubs. My grandmother //was//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 `cause I tend to think my grandfather drank too much `cause //he died//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 quite young.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And that's, yeah,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 an abhorrence of drink, we weren't allowed drink in the house.

F1189 Right. //Mm. Mmhm.//

M1193 //Except maybe port or sherry or something like that.//

F1189 For medicinal purposes?

M1193 Yeah, of course [laugh].

F1189 Now what about things like New Year there, then, since you mention drink?

M1193 Yeah, well we, we celebrated it to the extent of probably having a sherry //or port//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 There was no whisky.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Well, of course there was ehm we-we used to do first-footing as the old thing and

F1189 Mm.

M1193 my brother was, he was dark, as I am, or was, fair. And he'd had his, he always took the coal out and brought it back in again. [laugh] That was New Year.

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 Eh well, we went first-footing in, //in those days, I used,//

F1189 //[cough]Mmhm.//

M1193 used to go out in a group.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 But it was always soft drink we drank. //never//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 I never drank until I went into the RAF and even then it was er very very rare.

F1189 Mm mmhm. You would see more of that though in the, in an emigrÃ© community like, //like, such//

M1193 //Oh yeah, yeah.//

F1189 as there was with the tea planters.

M1193 Yeah, well it's I actually drank, I probably drank brandy in Ceylon,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 as opposed to whisky.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm. But I was never a big drinker.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I never drank, I don't drink a lot now.

F1189 Mmhm. //No.//

M1193 //Probably drink// wine more than anything else.

F1189 Yes uh-huh. Now, what about those winter festivals because [laugh] it's winter back in the UK but it's summer here now, so

M1193 Yeah, well.

F1189 what changes have there been for you in, in celebrating them?

M1193 That's something even with my time, I've spent more time out of Scotland than in it.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I still tend to think of this time of year as winter.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 It's funny, it's even although it's completely opposite. I've never actually got round to thinking of December as, as summer. And I've, I've spoken to a few of er Scottish people I know and these tend to say the same, that ehm celebrating Christmas in, in the summer time. Even in Ceylon I never enjoyed it, I, I found it peculiar. Ehm but

F1189 So, so New Year //here, do you, do you,//

M1193 //It's a completely different thing.// //Well, we//

F1189 //do the first-footing or//

M1193 No. //No, no, you see//

F1189 //bring in the New Year?//

M1193 it's ehm it's a matter of eh drink and driving of //course is a//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 big thing. They're not quite as strict as they are in UK but I think it's coming to that.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But, the RSA, the Returned Servicemen's Club,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 we, I've been there a few times and just a matter of walking back and forward.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We didn't take the car. Ehm my car's only used two or three times a week.

F1189 I just wondered ehm //if there's any of the tartan and the heather,//

M1193 //The first-footing, no, no.//

F1189 even at Hogmanay in this country.

M1193 No, there's, ah well there would be ehm, the fanatical Burns

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Club people, I would imagine they do, I haven- haven't experienced that. Ehm but at the, a lot of Scottish people go to the, the RSA to celebrate New Year.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 And we just do the usual thing and twelve o'clock you have Auld Lang Syne and that's, that's about it, then you go home. //[laugh]//

F1189 //Still a bit// Scottish then? //[laugh]//

M1193 //Oh yeah,// yeah, this is, //this, th-this town//

F1189 //Although that's international now, isn't it?//

M1193 is actually quite Scottish.

F1189 Mm mm.

M1193 Er the mill is Scottish. //It's ehm//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 oh yeah, a lot of things around here, it's eh I think the, the original Invermay agricultural training.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I'm sure that was a bit Scottish to start with. And that's been going on for a long long time.

F1189 Now, when you had your children, your wee girls, did you ever encourage them to read anything //about//

M1193 //Oh yes.//

F1189 back home?

M1193 Well, we've al-always tried to get them interested in that, erm, I wouldn't say we fanatically said `You must read this or you must read that'.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm they're probably more interested now, once they're getting a bit older and ehm but while they were at school they weren't particularly interested. They got stuff from home.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. They used to get Christmas presents. And that was a big thing, getting Christmas presents from UK [inaudible].

F1189 Did they get books at all?

M1193 Yeah, they probably did.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm, probably got a, books from home and th-th-the weight would be the biggest problem with that. //because it's,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 you paid on weight.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. I'm not sure just what books they got at Christmas eh. Probably the usual girls' annuals or whatever they were. Ehm [throat].

F1189 Did you continue to get newspapers from, from back in the UK?

M1193 For a while and then we stopped them.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We didn't see mu-, see, I can get it on the internet, I can look up Daily Express on the internet now if I want to [laugh].

F1189 And do you?

M1193 Oh if, if I'm feeling a bit morose about something [laugh] I'll, I'll switch it on but I haven't done it for a while.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Yeah, it's a great, it, it's a great link,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 the internet, it's, it's a great learner too, it teaches you all sorts of things.

F1189 Are you still interested in current affairs

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 in the UK? //or in Scotland in particular?//

M1193 //Yeah I am, yeah I am, yeah I am, in Scotland.// //[throat]//

F1189 //Hmm.//

M1193 Ehm, I don't think we'll ever become completely independent but ehm we've at least got half-way there.

F1189 Ah now you've followed the whole parliament thing then, have you?

M1193 Oh my sister, when I talk to her on the phone, she gives me all the business, what's going on.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 She's a red hot tory if ever there was one.

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 [laugh]

F1189 I was about to say that the Express is a Conservative paper.

M1193 Yeah, well that's the way we were brought up.

F1189 Uh-huh uh-huh.

M1193 Don't ask me why because we weren't wealthy or anything. [laugh]

F1189 No, Uh-huh.

M1193 Ehm I don't know why my grandmother was, was //anti-Labour.//

F1189 //It's interesting that you've stuck// with the Express then.

M1193 I don't even know, is the Sunday Ex- I don't think it's available, is it now? Is the Sunday Express still available?

F1189 It is, yes. //It is.//

M1193 //Is it really?// //Oh.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 You can actually buy those papers, there's a, there's a shop. I've, can't remember where it is. There's a shop in Dunedin or, where you can buy all those overseas papers if you want.

F1189 Mmhm. Eh well, there's one place near where I'm staying called the Edinburgh News.

M1193 Oh yeah. Oh you're staying down in the motel down //there?//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 Ah.

F1189 Ehm. That, that might be it. And I certainly have noticed Scottish magazines //in-//

M1193 //Yeah I'm,// yes, I'm oh that's interesting.

F1189 and things like eh The People's Friend.

M1193 Oh yeah. //Good grief.//

F1189 //[laugh]// [laugh]

M1193 That's, that's ancient.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 It's like the Woman, British Woman's Weekly.

F1189 Yes indeed, that's there too.

M1193 I used to read that.

F1189 Uh-huh did you?

M1193 Oh my grandmother used to get it.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 [laugh] I used to sneak and read some of it. //Mm.//

F1189 //Do you remember// anything about reading that?

M1193 All I can remember is the front page, it was always very old-fashioned.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. It had gardening things in it, //and,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 if I remember rightly, I was interested in gardening.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We lived in the bottom flat so I looked after the garden which was just about the width of that path there.

F1189 Postage stamp //size?//

M1193 //Yeah.//

F1189 Yes uh-huh. Now, during your lifetime then, since you mention hobby books like that. Ehm I've had a look at what's popular in New Zealand and ehm and gardening is, does seem to be. //And so does cookery.//

M1193 //Oh.// Eh fishing's one of the biggest sports in New Zealand, //I'd say.//

F1189 //Right uh-huh.// //And sports.//

M1193 //Especially white-baiting.// //[laugh]//

F1189 //Right,// uh-huh.

M1193 Ehm. I think they just about do everything, cricket,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 er golf's very, //very, I//


M1193 play a bit of golf, or I used to.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm, most sports ehm squash is played, tennis is played.

F1189 Have you carried on since you've been here reading books like that about sports and

M1193 Well I, as I say I've, I've never, I don't read the analytical sports books where it //tells you//

F1189 //Mm// mm.

M1193 À' played ninety-nine games for the All Blacks, that doesn't really interest me. Eh, or even individuals.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Cricket books are different in as much, rugby books are purely, as far as I can see, al-, except the book on the All Blacks, I //must admit I've//

F1189 //Mm mm.//

M1193 I used to have a book eh The All Blacks, I gave it away to a friend //of mine down the road there.//


M1193 `Cause his father was an All Black.

F1189 Uh-huh?

M1193 And [throat] I like reading the old books, rather than the present day, I'm still on the history.

F1189 [laugh] Yes.

M1193 Hanker after the history of it. //Er.//

F1189 //Now,// one o- one of the, the terms of history that, that would seem to be popular here is ehm aspects of royalty and and the history //of the Commonwealth.//

M1193 //Oh well, yeah.// There-there's, there is a bit of that, isn't //there?//

F1189 //Mmhm.// Does that interest you at all?

M1193 Well it's, to the, to the point of how much it's really beneficial to places like New Zealand //or Australia, I mean they're so,//

F1189 //Mm mm.//

M1193 I don't think it would matter a damn if they separated the head from the body if you want to call it that, I don't think it made a lot of difference.

F1189 No, mm.

M1193 It'd still have a Governor General or whatever you want to call it.

F1189 So you're not a royalist then?

M1193 Oh well, this is where my Scottish part comes in [laugh]. I'm not a royal- I'm not a royalist from the English point of view. Ehm. No, not really, I don't really admire Prince Charles at all. As a person, I th- I think he's... Although, Queen Elizabeth, she's a pretty stubborn, strong wo- eh woman but I've never liked her type, she's oh it goes back the Scottish

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Elizabeth the First and [laugh]

F1189 Now, how do you keep in touch with Scottish news then?

M1193 Well I mainly read, what I read basically [throat] ehm I don't get a lot of information from home

F1189 Mm.

M1193 in that respect now because I'm too far away. Ehm I've lost contact with m-my main roots, my own personal roots, er my friends and that sort of thing. I'm probably more attached to the English side than, `cause the friend I had in Ceylon, he was very much English.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And we correspond occasionally with him, we've bee- we went to see them in 2001. He lives down in Bournemouth. And, yes I'm more that way inclined.

F1189 I-I-I just wondered about if it was the the Express that kept you in touch with, say, things about //the Parliament.//

M1193 //Oh we haven't seen// //[throat] I haven't really seen the Express for...//

F1189 //[throat]//

M1193 No, it doesn't. I sometimes re-read the bulletins on how things are going in bits and places [?]where I was[/?]. I don't read it as a matter of fact. //I just,//

F1189 //Right.// Mmhm.

M1193 if I'm on there //[inaudible]//

F1189 //Do you get a bit of that// kind of news in New Zealand then? //On the//

M1193 //Well,//

F1189 television or in the newspaper?

M1193 to be honest, New Zealand erm news is really not world news, it's, it's, we've got Sky, I sometimes switch onto the news in Britain or even CNN.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And they give us sometimes even more news about New Zealand, as much //as about//

F1189 //[laugh]//

M1193 anything else, it's quite strange. //I don't think//

F1189 //Would that be//

M1193 the news in New Zealand is very good at all, to be honest. I don't particularly think it's...

F1189 So how do you think the, the New Zealand newspapers compare to, //what you can get in the UK?//

M1193 //Well the new actually newspapers are// quite good. We-we-we get our world ehm pull-out

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 ehm of what's going on. I think it's once a week it comes out. And you can pick up what's on that. //Ehm,//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 the, the big thing we've got on at the moment on our news of course is the bushfires in Australia.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 I don't, I don't know how that, how that's been done in Britain, I would imagine it's just as good.

F1189 I was thinking maybe about things like ehm the war in Afghanistan and

M1193 Well there again, I learnt more about that from

F1189 `Cause I think New Zealanders are involved in //that too.//

M1193 //Yeah, they are, yeah.//

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 [throat] I learnt more about that from two or three episodes of a programme that was put on by... oh what the hell's his name? Chap who used to be in Eastenders. Bald-headed. He followed a unit of

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 the Anglians, I think they were called.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Regiment. //Ehm.//

F1189 //Do you watch Eastenders,// by the way, I must //ask.//

M1193 //No.//

F1189 [laugh] What about Coronation Street?

M1193 Ah yes we're pretty ardent Coronation fans.

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 Much to much of my friends' horror. I would say, I like that sort of thing, it's

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 relaxation, //you don't,//

F1189 //Uh-huh.// I'm a big Corrie fan so //you don't have to apologise [laugh].//

M1193 //I like, I like Coronation Street.// But East- I did watch Eastenders for //a while but//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 they went off. Ehm I believe they're back, I'm not quite //sure.//


M1193 But I, I'm a great eh The Bill fan, I like watching The Bill.

F1189 Right. You do get a lot of British programming here. //I, I have noticed that.//

M1193 //Well, on, on the// Sky you can get UK TV, but it's it's ehm four or five years old.

F1189 Mmhm yes.

M1193 It basically doesn't matter if,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 if I haven't seen, so.

F1189 And what about the, the BBC World News?

M1193 Oh that's //to date.//

F1189 //Do you watch that?//

M1193 I have sa- not very often. //But we//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 do watch it.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 We sometimes //watch...//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 I should really watch it more than I do.

F1189 Mmhm. Now, where is home for you now, David?

M1193 Oh it would have to be here. Eh there's no no argument there at all. Ehm. This is, this is where I am and this is it really and eh Apart from the fact I couldn't afford to live in the UK, it's far too expensive. I couldn't even buy a house.

F1189 You can say that again. //[laugh]//

M1193 //Oh the// prices.

F1189 Mmhm. Would you ever have considered going back?

M1193 No, if ehm not to stay, no I don- I don't really think I'd, unless I had the money. And that's pure fantasy, you know you, couple of million you could buy a house there and live there six months, that's nonsense.

F1189 Hmm.

M1193 I think if truth be known, if I'd known what Australia was like ehm twenty, twenty-five years ago I might have been tempted to go there.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 `Cause it's the climate I like.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 It's, I couldn't go back to the cold in Britain, no, never. Ehm I went home. The twice I've been home was in the summer. Spring, summer, //um//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 leading onto winter.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And eh gets to September and it's getting a bit cold.

F1189 Now, how was that when you went back home? How did you find things there?

M1193 Well, it's ehm My first trip was 1991. //Ehm.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 That was the summer I picked, the time I was there from May till July, //I think it was.//

F1189 //Mm mmhm.//

M1193 Thereabouts. And ehm I still find it cool, I must say, it's ehm but the atmosphere or, or the heat there is quite different from here.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 This is not good this heat.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 You really do need to cover up.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Er Britain, it's quite different, it's much better, it's much more pleasant.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And even, yes it's, even Ceylon, it wasn't all that bad.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 We never used to wear

F1189 You must have seen some changes though when you

M1193 Well. //certainly in Glasgow `cause//

F1189 //you got to Glasgow?//

M1193 my brother,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 he travelled up and down Scotland quite a bit and I remember him. He says, Òh I'm going to Aberdeen tomorrow.' I said, he said, `Do you want to come?' And then I said, `Where do you stay?' He says Òh no, I'll come back.' And went straight up the motorway //to Aberdeen,//


M1193 did his rounds,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 then rolled back by eight o'clock at night.

F1189 And you were surprised //by that?//

M1193 //Oh I was amazed, I// [laugh] `cause when I was there it was, I mean even going to Edinburgh was a, was a big journey, thirty-four miles or something. I used to go there with the rugby, you know, school tr- watch Scotland playing at Murrayfield and that sort of thing.

F1189 Do you think people then, Scots who have come over here, cling to a sort of outmoded vision of what Scotland's //like?//

M1193 //Well, well,// my experience of the, the Scottish people I know ehm, I've not any idea of why ha-, you know, why half of them came. Some of them were br-, some people were brought out by firms.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 The mill, the mill brought out people and ehm Cadbury,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Fry in Dunedin.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm I know two or three English [?]pals[/?] at that golf club who,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 specially brought out

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 for their expertise as engineers or whatever //it was.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 Ehm, but other than that, the, the Scottish friends I've got, erm, I'm a member of the the Masonic lodge here.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And, well two of them, I wouldn't have a clue how they were brought out here. Ehm.

F1189 Family often, family connections, I think.

M1193 Well that,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 that could be this, in one of the cases it could be true er it could be true. But ehm most of the ones I've ehm spoken to don't regret coming here. As one of them said to me, Ìt would be too bad if I did.' //[laugh] I can't go back.//

F1189 //[laugh]// Now could I just, before we finish, ask you about some very specific books and authors that have a, a Scottish association.

M1193 Scottish //association?//

F1189 //Yeah.// And then, if you don't mind, I wouldn't mind looking at a couple of your Boys' Brigade prizes.

M1193 Yeah, you can have a look at the

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 books in there that //ehm, now.//

F1189 //And then we'll finish, David, `cause// you've, you've done extremely well, awfully grateful to you.

M1193 [laugh] It's, well, I suppose Robert Louis Stevenson.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 `Treasure Island'.

F1189 Now, you mentioned Robert Louis Steve-. Would `Treasure Island' be your favourite?

M1193 Yeah, well it's probably the most //popular.//


M1193 Robert Louis Stevenson was a funny person.

F1189 Mm.

M1193 Ehm, he wrote his own way, I suppose. //He did.//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 All his books weren't quite readable I don't think. But I like `Treasure Island'. But I also liked `The Thirty-Nine Steps', was a good, I read that quite early on.

F1189 Now what about the poetry of Robert Burns? `Cause you mentioned //the//

M1193 //Apart from the fact I couldn't//

F1189 ehm,

M1193 The language was a //bit too difficult for me.//

F1189 //Did you ever own a, did you ever// own a book of his poetry?

M1193 I think I've st- I think I might have. We certainly used to have one at home, I know that.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 You're not a fan, I can tell that. //But//

M1193 //No, I'm not,// I'm not a fan. //Mainly//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 because the way he was put over to me //and I//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 think that's, //as Gra- as Gran//

F1189 //Has coloured your vision.//

M1193 used to say, Òh he', she says, Àll he did was drink

F1189 [laugh] //The demon drink.//

M1193 //and womanise'.// //Yeah.//

F1189 //Yes.// [laugh] //Ehm.//

M1193 //So.// Yeah, I must admit

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 I've read a few things now and he, he was a clever bloke.

F1189 Mmhm. Did you carry on with your association, by the way, with the Church of Scotland here or //did you give up on it?//

M1193 //Oh I've more or less// given that up, that's,

F1189 Mm.

M1193 it's not a subject I like to get into I must admit because religion is something personal, //shall we say?//

F1189 //That's fine.// //No problem.//

M1193 //I ehm// ehm the reasons I gave up were pretty vague.

F1189 Mmhm. It's just that, you know, there are a number of very prominent presbyterian churches here. //And there are lots of Scots//

M1193 //Oh yeah there's, there's//

F1189 and people of Scottish ex- heritage //join that. Uh-huh uh-huh.//

M1193 //We've got the the East Taieri Presbyterian Church and// cemetery.

F1189 Uh-huh.

M1193 And ehm I very often, well very often, we use- we used to live up in that end of town.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Then we had a dog and we used to walk it.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And we used to often walk through the cemetery looking at all the names of the families that, you know, made Mosgiel.

F1189 Lots of Scots ones I would imagine.

M1193 Oh yeah, very much so. Yes, there's no doubt about that.

F1189 Now before we leave Robert Louis Stevenson ehm //Did you ever have//

M1193 //Oh.//

F1189 À Child's Garden of Verses' when you were small? Do you remember that?

M1193 No, not really. My mind's a bit blank when it

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 eh comes to... The only books I remember reading during the //war//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 would be Biggles mainly.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 I'm not quite //sure when-.//

F1189 //He was very English.//

M1193 Is that right?

F1189 Yes, I think so, well I associate him with a certain type of English masculinity.

M1193 Oh yeah, I see what you mean. //Yeah.//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 Yeah. I can't think of any other books I used to read.

F1189 What about ehm since you mentioned J- eh John Buchan, the likes of Neil Gunn?

M1193 That doesn't ring a bell.

F1189 Mm. More popular ones eh by Neil Munro? Do you know the Para Handy stories?

M1193 Oh yeah, right you are, now wait a minute.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 That rings a bell. I'm not quite sure when I would read those. Ehm.

F1189 And what about contemporary Scottish authors? There are some that are very popular just now, people like Ian Rankin.

M1193 Ian?

F1189 Rankin.

M1193 Oh yeah, I've read Ian Rankin's books.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Get them out the library here.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Yeah, that's, that's probably quite true.

F1189 Mm. Would you choose them because they're just good detective fiction or because they have //an association?//

M1193 //I'd probably be [?]quite[/?]// I wouldn't really have known he was Scottish until, till I read the cover [laugh], to be honest.

F1189 So you're not looking out for things like that then?

M1193 No, I look for ehm, well, I read o-obviously, read what the thing's [?]I suppose[/?] is about.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Or I might get Jan, she reads probably more than I do.

F1189 Mmhm mmhm.

M1193 She might give me an idea what

F1189 Right.

M1193 of, well she brings the books home and I read them sometimes.

F1189 [laugh]

M1193 It's very often the way it works.

F1189 Now, what about New Zealand authors? Ehm.

M1193 Mm.

F1189 Are there any that //you can think of that//

M1193 //Oh well.//

F1189 you particularly like?

M1193 To be honest, I I don't think I've read very many of, New Zealand authors, the only one that comes to mind is ehm Agatha Christie's counterpart ehm [third participant speaks in background] She wrote the same sort of books as Agatha Christie.

F1189 Detective fiction.

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 Mm thrillers.

M1193 Ehm.

F1189 I know who you mean but I can't remember. //[laugh]//

M1193 //Can't think of the name.//

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 You tend to compare now, which is not a good i- not, not a very good idea, you compare. Those that put, UK authors with ones out here, I don't think it's a good comparison.

F1189 In what way, David?

M1193 Well, I tend, I tend to think us colonials still tend to think we are the... see I never became a New Zealand citizen,

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 which keeps me apart from, in New Zealand really. It's erm not a particularly good, I still tend to cling to my Scottish roots as much as, although, although I've spent more time out of here, out of Scotland than inside it.

F1189 It's not in a sentimental way though, I don't think. You're not clinging to them in a //sentimental way.//

M1193 //No, I'm not clinging to it// for that. I think I'm just proud of being Scottish really, that's probably the thing. Ehm I don't like people running down Scotland.

F1189 And do they, do you, have you ever //suffered from//

M1193 //Oh.//

F1189 many negative ter-stereotypes of Scots?

M1193 Oh yes, one or two ehm used to couple of [?]bods[/?] often said, `Why the hell are you out here? Why didn't you become a New Zealand citizen?' I said, Ì don't particularly want to.'

F1189 Mm.

M1193 And they said, Òh well.' They said, `We're,' well the usual nonsense, `We're keeping you' and `Why are you out here?'

F1189 Well.

M1193 Ùtilising our stuff because UK's not any good.' That sort of thing.

F1189 Do you think you might be the last generation of //immigrants who ehm//

M1193 //Well, as far as our particular family go, I will be `cause// neither, neither of my children have got children. Ehm.

F1189 No, I meant that you might be the last generation of people to do that, to keep your British passports and, and keep that //that part of your identity.//

M1193 //Well, I've,// I haven't, it's not something I've ehm investigated too much but you, you're probably right. I suppose we could actually have dual, we could have dual

F1189 Mm.

M1193 passports, we could have a New Zealand one if we wanted it.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 But ehm well, we're quite happy with a UK passport. It's served us in good stead, I don't see any point changing it. Only now of course it's a Euro- it's a European passport, isn't it, it's not a

F1189 That's right, it's not, it's not the nice //er//

M1193 //We've// still got my, my blue one somewhere. //Or pink, was it [?]all orange[/?].//

F1189 //No, it was a blue one, that's// right, you know, it's so long now I'd forgotten, it's, no it's a sort of ehm maroon red now [laugh].

M1193 Well, ours is [third speaker clarifies it is browny-red] Yeah, it is too.

F1189 [laugh] Now, lastly in terms of, of New Zealand eh, we mentioned fiction, you said you wouldn't particularly look out for that. What about ehm the history of indigenous er people in, in New Zealand? //Would that interest you?//

M1193 //Oh.// Yeah, I'm quite interested in that, I've, we've got, I've got books on that too.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm. We used to, used to get weekly synopsis on different things on //[inaudible].//

F1189 //Mm.//

M1193 You could put them into a folder. //I don't know whether we've still got that.//

F1189 //Right. Uh=huh uh-huh.// Was that a kind of magazine then?

M1193 Yeah.

F1189 Right.

M1193 Mm.

F1189 And what was that called?

M1193 Oh, I can't remember, the [?]Royal[/?] New Zealand ehm. No I can't remember what they were. //It's gone.//

F1189 //Mmmh.//

M1193 But you get a lot of, there again the television's a great educator and they had a a programme two or three years ago now, on the New Zealand wars.

F1189 Mmhm //mmhm.//

M1193 //And ehm// it was very well done and well illus-illustrated.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And ehm that certainly gave you an idea about what went, what went on on the, the old colonial //way of doing things.//

F1189 //Mmhm.// Mm. Now, there's a, there's a Maori television channel.

M1193 Yes that's a good channel, Jan watches that.

F1189 Yeah, I was watching it too //the other night uh-huh//

M1193 //It's a good, it's a good channel.//

F1189 uh-huh.

M1193 I must, I must admit I forget about it //occasionally, it's...//

F1189 //Mmhm.//

M1193 And you get some very good programmes on //that.//

F1189 //Mm.// I did notice it was mostly in English though. Well, at least //the night I watched it.//

M1193 //Yeah, it will,// sometimes it's in, it's in Maori with //subtitles, it depends//

F1189 //Mm mmhm mmhm.//

M1193 what they're doing.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm, I suspect in a few years' time it will be Maori.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 Ehm but it's A-and they produce the programmes very well.

F1189 Mmhm.

M1193 And they don't get much money. //It's done,//

F1189 //Don't they?//

M1193 no, it's done on a pretty shoe-string budget.

F1189 Right so the, it's not subsidised.

M1193 Yeah, the government subsidises it but it's, I don't think it's subsidised to any great extent.

F1189 Mmhm. Mm that's interesting.

M1193 Oh yeah, it's, there's some very good //Maori people around.//


M1193 There's like a whole thing on fanatics there too which... There again they weren't treated too well by the British colonials when they arrived. [laugh] We've never learned, I don't think.

F1189 [laugh] Now, my last question is, is quite a hard one. Ehm but it is the last one. And that's if you could sum up for me, David, what reading has meant in your lifetime.

M1193 Oh. Well, reading, is, it's entertainment but it's also biggest thing as far as I'm concerned is the learning ehm about different things, different people. I've a fascination about races and people, Janet gets annoyed when I look at someone and think, `God, he looks Indian' or `he looks...' So what? But no it's ehm it's the education part, I, you can never stop learning.

F1189 Do you think that's a particularly Scottish legacy, especially here in New Zealand, the education part?

M1193 That's something you, you probably answer better then me but I know the people I've got out here are always learning. They're keen on, the Scottish people I know. Eh but they're sort, sort of have the same hobbies as, as I do. Ehm. No, I think you can always learn from somebody or... You don't have to agree with them but you can always learn from them and ehm

F1189 I'm just thinking that Scots have a reputation in that area, //of//

M1193 //Oh do they?// Oh well, //it's,//

F1189 //being//

M1193 yeah. //I've always,//

F1189 //interested in education.//

M1193 yeah, I've always been interested in education.

F1189 But you've never reflected on that as being part of your Scottish heritage?

M1193 Well, I've never thought of it, I've just, that's just the way I am and that's er and I think we've, it's reflected in our two girls, they've both done pretty well, and ehm, They certainly read. I know that the older one seems to read more than maybe the younger one nowadays but...

F1189 Did they ever read any of your old books?

M1193 Yeah, well, funnily enough some of the, [third participant laughs] some of them have, some of them have gone up the,

F1189 [laugh] //They've whipped them, have they [laugh]?//

M1193 //The Reader's Digest.// We've got a whole stack //piled//

F1189 //Uh-huh.//

M1193 away there. Not sure what we're going to do with them. Ehm. But the big thing as far as I'm concerned is that we emphasised on both of the girls when they were young. And they did ehm they, they did read a lot. //And they're well//

F1189 //So you did// the same thing that your aunt did for you?

M1193 Oh yeah, my aunt was a big ehm influence in all of what I did.

F1189 David, you've spoken with me for a long //time, I think//

M1193 //[laugh]//

F1189 I've exhausted you. And it's been an absolute pleasure. //Can I thank you very much.//

M1193 //Well, I've thoroughly enjoyed it,// it's, if it's any help.

F1189 It's an- of an enormous amount of help, we're really grateful to you.

For gender	Mixed
Audience size	N/A

Speaker awareness	N/A
Degree of spontaneity	N/A

Year of recording	2009
Recording person id	1189
Size (min)	130
Size (mb)	501

Recording venue	In interviewee's home
Geographic location of speech	Dunedin

Transcriber id	1222
Year of transcription	2009
Year material recorded	2009
Word count	20274

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Document 1676

Interview with David Thomson for Scottish Readers Remember Project

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Copyright holder(s): SAPPHIRE, SCOTS Project

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Interview with David Thomson for Scottish Readers Remember Project

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Participant id	1189
Gender	Female
Decade of birth	1950
Educational attainment	University
Age left school	16
Occupation	Research Assistant
Place of birth	Ayr
Region of birth	S Ayr
Birthplace CSD dialect area	Ayr
Country of birth	Scotland
Place of residence	Glasgow
Region of residence	Glasgow
Residence CSD dialect area	Gsw
Country of residence	Scotland
Father's occupation	Journeyman joiner
Father's place of birth	Ayr
Father's region of birth	S Ayr
Father's birthplace CSD dialect area	Ayr
Father's country of birth	Scotland
Mother's occupation	Domestic
Mother's place of birth	Ayr
Mother's region of birth	S Ayr
Mother's birthplace CSD dialect area	Ayr
Mother's country of birth	Scotland

Scottish Corpus Of Texts & Speech

Document 1676

Interview with David Thomson for Scottish Readers Remember Project

Author(s): N/A

Copyright holder(s): SAPPHIRE, SCOTS Project

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Interview with David Thomson for Scottish Readers Remember Project

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Scottish
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